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[07:23:25] <Dan York> Test
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[07:23:34] <Dan York> (okay, I can see it works)
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[07:23:37] <Suzanne Woolf> Test back at ya :-)
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[07:26:58] <Tim Wicinski> I got the date right this time
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[07:28:11] <Suzanne Woolf> Actually, it's 11/20 :-)
[07:28:12] <tale > Goooooood mooorrnnninng Bangkok Thailand
[07:28:12] <Andrew Campling> Not necessarily - it's 20th November here
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[07:28:18] <tale > wooof mega lag
[07:28:34] <Tim Wicinski> oh yea - I can never win the battle of date and time
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[07:28:41] <Suzanne Woolf> *wince* one should never "well, actually" one's co-chair....Sorry Tim!
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[07:29:00] <Sandra Murphy> so I see my name in the chat panel, and I can see "a screen share is being started" but nothing appears.  happened earlier as well in different wg.  did not get login step I requested. what am I doing wrong? (firefox, macosx)
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[07:29:30] <tale > the screen share is up, fwiw
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[07:29:37] <tale > suzanne's title slide
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[07:29:51] <Suzanne Woolf> Yeah not sure what to suggest if others can see the share.
[07:29:56] <Paul Hoffman> Sandra: maybe restart your browser. That has worked for some folks.
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[07:30:33] <Jim Reid> @sandra, try clicking on the two circular arrows on the bottom left of the page. That should restart your video/audio session.
[07:30:35] <Paul Hoffman> Warren is here!
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[07:31:58] <Robert Moskowitz> The two curve arrows in the bottom right only seem to restart the audio.  If I need the video restarted, I have to close the firefox window and open a new one....
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[07:32:03] <Sandra Murphy> uh  maybe bottom right?  standard refresh page symbol
[07:32:05] <David Lawrence> "just a couple of hours ago" is forrrrreever in internet time, warren.  come on!
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[07:32:24] <Vladimír Čunát> Someone adviced the pause button on top-left of each video.
[07:32:26] <Meetecho> Video streams can be restarted too: if you hover over them, some icons appear, including a small pause icon
[07:32:35] <Meetecho> That will close the stream, and a new icon to re-subscribe appears
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[07:33:04] <Robert Moskowitz> Fortunately no "Robert's rules of order" here and need to submit all materials at least 2 hours prior...
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[07:33:32] <Jim Reid> @sandra - yes bottom right. I cant tell left from right at this unholy time of day.
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[07:33:46] <Tim Wicinski> Thanks Warren!  
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[07:34:12] <Tim Wicinski> Robert - this was in regards to a new version of a document. Not slides, which were all in place hours ago.
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[07:35:47] <Robert Moskowitz> :-D
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[07:35:51] <Peter van Dijk> PowerDNS EDE branch was merged a few days ago
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[07:36:21] <Wes Hardaker> awesome to hear
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[07:36:30] <Peter van Dijk> (that's recursor -&gt; stub)
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[07:36:53] <Roy Arends> Well done Peter!
[07:36:59] <Peter van Dijk> i had no part in it :D
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[07:37:15] <Roy Arends> Well done PowerDNS :-)
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[07:37:22] <Peter van Dijk> :+1:
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[07:38:58] <Zidago Sako> anyone to explain this error message please DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN
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[07:42:09] <Libor Peltan> Wonderful presentation, Willem, thank you!
[07:42:18] <Tim Wicinski> thanks Willem!
[07:42:23] <Suzanne Woolf> thank you Willem
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[07:43:10] <Suzanne Woolf> agreed about the benefits of meeting in person, thanks to all who are making the extra effort to make the time virtually
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[07:45:15] <Sandra Murphy> btw.  closed firefox and restarted, now working, thanks for advice
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[07:46:42] <Eric Orth> @Zidago: That's a Chrome error code for when DNS lookup had issues, but when DNS worked fine for a diagnostic probe to a believed-good resolver for a believed-good name.
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[07:47:20] <Zidago Sako> thanks
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[07:52:28] <Zidago Sako> Interesting draft!
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[07:53:07] <Zidago Sako> @Eric thanks
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[08:02:00] <Mohamed Boucadair> I think Jim is commenting slide 2
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[08:02:25] <Suzanne Woolf> yep, missed a cue :-)
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[08:06:08] <Simon Hicks> what is specifically inaccurate?
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[08:07:04] <Mohamed Boucadair> I don't see the link with ADD as that wg is only about discovery
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[08:07:37] <Eric Orth> One example of inaccuracy, as currently written, I think it's about 95% inaccurately conflating DoH with use of third-party DNS resolvers.
[08:07:38] <Mohamed Boucadair> I agree with Ben that there are things to be fixed in the doc, but this is worth to be documented
[08:07:54] <Mohamed Boucadair> Agree with Eric
[08:08:02] <Simon Hicks> the more we can say in IETF, the less will be heard from regulators
[08:08:21] <Suzanne Woolf> @Simon...if only!
[08:08:25] <Benjamin Schwartz> The document is not describing "operational experience"; it's largely speculating on future operational experience.
[08:08:51] <Mohamed Boucadair> the "speculating" thing need to be identified and removed
[08:08:55] <sftcd> if ADD doesn't change these considerations then ADD failed
[08:08:57] <Tim Wicinski> yes ben - one of the things I mentioned to Jim he would want to rework parts of the draft
[08:09:00] <Kirsty P> I suppose some operators are already experiencing issues, before ADD finishes?
[08:09:01] <Mohamed Boucadair> but this is fixable
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[08:09:17] <Benjamin Schwartz> Section 5 in particular is speculating on how implementations will interact with the network; that speculation is largely incorrect in my view.
[08:09:32] <Simon Hicks> but let's fix it in the same way that works for all
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[08:12:06] <Vladimír Čunát> So, the EDDI list would be a better fit, I assume?  https://www.encrypted-dns.org
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[08:12:32] <Andrew Campling> It's reasonable to note that the policy considerations exist
[08:12:40] <Tim Wicinski> yes Andrew
[08:12:43] <Jonathan Reed> I think there's value in ... yeah, what Andrew said
[08:12:48] <Tim Wicinski> "beyond our purview"
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[08:13:36] <Mohamed Boucadair> If dnsop don't want to take the work, if the authors decide to go to the ISE, the conflict review is likely to point to dnsop.  That's why it is  important to have a clear view if this is in scope or not.
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[08:14:03] <Tim Wicinski> Mohamed - Correct, which is why I wanted him to present here
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[08:14:31] <sftcd> seems to me if the content is as premature as I think it is, then a WG scope decision would be even more premature
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[08:14:39] <Mohamed Boucadair> It could be good if a formal show of hand is used here, Tim.
[08:14:41] <Suzanne Woolf> @mohamed and not for the first time; the usual fix for that kind of conflict review situation is to say yes dnsop discussed it and had a chance to comment, and no it doesn't conflict with dnsop work
[08:15:11] <Tim Wicinski> Oh I am terrible at the show of hands
[08:15:13] <Jim Reid> @vladimir, EDDI doesn't (yet) have a document publishing mechanism
[08:15:57] <Andrew Campling> If not here then where?
[08:16:02] <mglt> It seems to me that if the document helps operator to deploy DoH it is useful to have it in this group.
[08:16:06] <Vladimír Čunát> I meant as a place to discuss it.
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[08:16:27] <Vladimír Čunát> If there's interest in having something like that, surely people will figure out how to colaborate on the text.
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[08:16:39] <Kirsty P> +1 mglt
[08:16:48] <Paul Hoffman> Do not forget that this could be AD-sponsored, not just ISE.
[08:16:49] <sftcd> it might be that people figure out how to disagree more than collaborate;-(
[08:16:57] <Tim Wicinski> I'm OK with DNSOP discussing it
[08:17:01] <Mark McFadden> +1 Paul
[08:17:16] <Tim Wicinski> Thanks Paul - always forget that.  
[08:17:28] <Kirsty P> a vote might be helpful in gauging this?
[08:17:30] <Warren Kumari> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5742  -- Section 3
[08:18:01] <Warren Kumari> "The IESG review of these Independent Submission and IRTF stream
   documents results in one of the following five types of conclusion,
   any of which may be accompanied by a request to include an IESG note
   if the document is published." ...
[08:18:08] <Sean Turner> It's easy head to the show of hands tool - enter y/n question and off you go
[08:18:13] <Andrew Campling> Can a show of hands be taken on the list?  
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[08:18:32] <Paul Hoffman> Sean: that has sucked badly in other WGs.
[08:18:36] <Mohamed Boucadair> it can be taken online
[08:18:40] <Mohamed Boucadair> we do have a tool for this
[08:18:42] <Sean Turner> YMMV :)
[08:18:55] <mglt> just to confirm are we polling with hands
[08:18:57] <Tim Wicinski> Yes, I can also count up the +1 hands in the chat
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[08:18:59] <mglt> ?
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[08:19:18] <Andrew Campling> +1 to work on the doc in DNSOPs
[08:19:22] <Francois Ortolan> +1
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[08:19:27] <sftcd> it'd be an interesting puzzle if text like this were sent to the ISE - while the ISE publishing a "hey IETF you messed up" RFC is a known concept, doing that while work is ongoing within the IETF would be fairly odd
[08:19:28] <Kirsty P> +1
[08:19:28] <Jonathan Reed> +1
[08:19:30] <Daniel Migault> +1
[08:19:38] <Tim Wicinski> I also suggest folks reach out to Mr Reid so he doesn't feel all alone
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[08:19:56] <Andrew S> +1
[08:20:07] <Vittorio Bertola> +1
[08:20:07] <Andrew Campling> Also +1 to contributing to the doc content
[08:20:20] <Mark McFadden> +1
[08:20:25] <Suzanne Woolf> @sftcd: agreed, but would hate for people to put that consideration ahead of providing feedback tothe authors on the substance of the doc :-)
[08:20:29] <Paul Hoffman> Everyone is now making counting +1s impossible.
[08:20:30] <Simon Hicks> +1 to doing something here
[08:20:44] <sftcd> +1 to fewer +1's :-)
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[08:22:12] <Suzanne Woolf> we'll review in the recording and ask on the list for views on next steps, much thanks for a very good discussion
[08:22:38] <sftcd> @suz: yep, it seems like a good plan for Jim's doc to continue to track the situation as it moves along, but based on a quick read over it, I have a hard time imagining that text evolving into something not wildly controversial - mind you I'm often wrong so who knows
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[08:23:43] <Andrew Campling> Does IETF only do non-controversial stuff? :-)  
[08:24:01] <sftcd> that's a little different from >100% controversial though:-)
[08:24:29] <Tim Wicinski> This is DNS - everything is controversial
[08:24:39] <Simon Hicks> @andrew. lots of controversial issues me thinks
[08:24:40] <sftcd> I'm sure someone will disagree
[08:25:24] <Robert Moskowitz> all you need is 3 IETFers in a room to get someone to disagree.'
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[08:25:54] <Mark McFadden> @Bob: what's the third person for?
[08:26:17] <Robert Moskowitz> :)
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[08:26:41] <Andrew Campling> (Chants of "stop the vote" heard somewhere)  :-D  
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[08:27:08] <Jonathan Reed> Too soon!
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[08:27:16] <Jim Reid> @Mark what's the second person for?
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[08:28:15] <Ted Lemon> Why wouldn't the glue be fetched (with RRSIG) from the authoritative zone?
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[08:29:16] <Peter van Dijk> by whom?
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[08:30:18] <Vladimír Čunát> You'd also have to add DNSKEY in that case.
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[08:30:46] <Olaf Kolkman> sill muted
[08:31:24] <zulipbot> [zulip] <Ralf Weber> Peter you need to press the camera plus the mic on meetecho
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[08:32:33] <Peter Koch> can't get audio top work, sorry
[08:32:34] <David Lawrence> we also had a LOT of concern about what this would do to data size in .com
[08:32:48] <Olaf Kolkman> All about being conservative
[08:32:48] <Vladimír Čunát> DiS is an interesting idea, at the very least.
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[08:32:57] <Tim Wicinski> We'll talk with the DPRIVE chairs
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[08:33:01] <Willem Toorop> Thank you Suzanne & Tim!
[08:33:01] <Paul Hoffman> Agree on the usefulness for this week!
[08:33:06] <Peter Koch> i don't see this being deployed in an NSEC3+OptOut zone like ours
[08:33:06] <Peter van Dijk> my earlier DiS-like proposals were excluding glue, but otherwise i like it
[08:33:17] <Andrew Campling> Jetlag without the travel is not great!
[08:33:17] <Mark McFadden> Thanks Suz and Tim!
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[08:33:25] <Marco Davids> Thanks!
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[08:33:31] <Simon Hicks> thanks all
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[08:34:36] <Jothan Frakes> thanks all
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[08:44:37] chantra leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Timed out waiting for stream resumption (connection-timeout)
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[09:46:21] <half-shot-test> (test)
[09:46:39] <Half-Shot> Test message from Matrix (through the Jabber bridge)
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[11:32:32] <liman> I realized Netnod no longer operates a jabber server, so I had to set up my own. Just testing that it works … :-)
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