dnsop - Monday, November 5, 2018

dnsop

dnsop@jabber.ietf.org

Monday, November 5, 2018< ^ >

danyork has set the subject to: IETF 102 DNSOP

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[06:50:57] <Thomas Peterson> I am here \o/ and I will be taking notes as best I can
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[06:51:15] <each> I'm here too
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[06:51:24] <Peter van Dijk> hello!
[06:51:27] <Aaron Falk> hi
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[06:51:58] <Pieter Lexis> Good morning!
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[06:52:34] <Dan York> Hi there
[06:52:39] Tony Finch50706 joins the room
[06:52:40] <Dan York> I'll be jabber scribing
[06:52:50] Dan York joins the room
[06:52:58] <Shane Kerr> Thanks Dan. (Y)
[06:53:04] <fneves> Dan mean 103
[06:53:30] Hugo Salgado_4399 joins the room
[06:53:44] <Dan York> Yes, this is IETF 103 DNSOP. (Using a different Jabber client and it's not letting me change the topic)
[06:53:58] <Peter van Dijk> we don't even see the topic on meetecho ;)
[06:54:02] muks has set the subject to: IETF 103 DNSOP
[06:54:04] <Dan York> :-)
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[06:55:01] <Meetecho> The topic should appear when you join and when it's changed, but yes, it's not showed permanently in our UI
[06:55:47] Matthijs Mekking joins the room
[06:55:52] <Francis Dupont> There should be a comment by Mark Andrews about rfc2845bis.
[06:56:05] Roland van Rijswijk-Deij joins the room
[06:57:31] <Dan York> Slides - https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/103/materials/slides-103-dnsop-serve-stale-00
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[06:58:25] <Dan York> Paul Hoffman at mic
[07:01:13] Taiji Kimura joins the room
[07:01:52] <Dan York> IF YOU HAVE A QUESTION you want relayed to the mic, please put "MIC:" at the beginning of whatever you want me to relay to the mic.
[07:02:08] Dan York leaves the room
[07:02:25] <Thomas Peterson> And please clearly state your name, I do not know many people in this WG.
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[07:12:01] <Dan York> Stuart Cheshire at mic
[07:13:44] <Dan York> Ondrej Sury at mic
[07:14:04] <Dan York> (Stuart back at mic)
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[07:14:57] <Dan York> Now Ondrej
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[07:16:10] <Dan York> Wes Hardaker at mic
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[07:17:55] <Pieter Lexis (PowerDNS)> I anyone else having streaming issues?
[07:18:09] <Peter van Dijk> seems fine here
[07:18:26] <Tony Finch> working for me too
[07:18:34] <Pieter Lexis (PowerDNS)> ok, switching from meetecho to jabber+audiostream :)
[07:18:38] <Dan York> Paul Wouters at mic
[07:18:56] <Dan York> Mukund Sivaraman at mic
[07:19:13] <Meetecho> Pieter Lexis: audio issues or video too? let me check the logs
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[07:19:54] <Pieter Lexis (PowerDNS)> @Meetecho both, but not at the same necessarily
[07:20:03] <Pieter Lexis (PowerDNS)> same time*
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[07:21:18] <Dan York> Giovane ? at mic
[07:21:38] <Peter van Dijk> Giovane Moura, SIDN
[07:21:59] <Dan York> Chris Lemmons
[07:22:04] <Dan York> Thanks, Peter
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[07:23:16] <Dan York> Johan Ihren at mic
[07:23:25] Pieter Lexis joins the room
[07:23:35] <Aaron Falk> MEETECHO: pushing the red button isn't bringing a waiting remote speaker to the mic
[07:23:43] Benno Overeinder joins the room
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[07:23:50] <Aaron Falk> MEETECHO: can you help?
[07:23:58] <Benno Overeinder> thanks Aaron
[07:24:17] <Meetecho> Ack, we'll look into this
[07:24:26] <Meetecho> In the meanwhile, let us know if you want us to unmute Mark
[07:24:35] We should add a second TTL to records. Use EDNS(1) to signal server stale ttl
[07:24:35] <Benno Overeinder> Mark, did you see any problems on your side?
[07:24:48] <Dan York> Go ahead and unmute
[07:24:53] <Aaron Falk> unmute now please
[07:24:58] <Meetecho> Done
[07:25:11] <Benno Overeinder> Thanks!
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[07:25:26] <Shane Kerr> The second TTL idea is a good one, but does not necessarily mean that the "serve stale" work is bad. :)
[07:27:40] <Matthijs Mekking> Sounds like we need a SOA record for the resolvers :)
[07:28:03] <Peter van Dijk> that would go well with the NSEC aggressive caching TTL mess!
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[07:28:22] <Dan York> Ondrej Sury speaking about https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/103/materials/slides-103-dnsop-measuring-cname-dname-01.pdf
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[07:30:14] <Tony Finch> (silly aside: are we still calling this idea "bname"?)
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[07:32:12] <Dan York> Now Tim up in the front talking about "ANAME etc" - https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/103/materials/slides-103-dnsop-aname-etc-00
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[07:36:12] <Dan York> Ray Bellis now at mic talking about his HTTP draft
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[07:41:04] <Meetecho> Chairs: we're rebooting the virtual queue, nothing to worry about :D
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[07:41:24] <Meetecho> (it's to fix the broken big red button from before)
[07:41:43] <Benno Overeinder> Ack. Thanks.
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[07:42:40] <Dan York> Wes Hardaker at mic
[07:43:17] <Meetecho> Should be back, now, and the BRB should work too now
[07:43:29] <Meetecho> Apologies for the small disruption
[07:43:34] <Dan York> MEETECHO - Thanks
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[07:45:12] <Dan York> Mark Andrews (remotely) at mic
[07:46:36] <Dan York> Wes Hardaker at mic
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[07:48:28] <Dan York> Paul Hoffman now presenting https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/103/materials/slides-103-dnsop-query-minimisation-draft-ietf-dnsop-rfc7816bis-00
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[07:51:40] dnsflagday for qname min
[07:52:24] <Peter van Dijk> the 2020 flag day is undecided, so we could do that!
[07:52:47] <Shane Kerr> Annual flag days? 🤔
[07:52:59] <Shane Kerr> Is that like "patch Tuesday"?
[07:53:10] remove one class of brokenness per year
[07:53:13] <Dan York> Ondrej Surry at mic
[07:53:26] <Aaron Falk> do it on ksk rollover day
[07:53:42] <Peter van Dijk> it was never explicitly discussed but several people have, independently, realised that we can reuse the (domain)name for multiple 'flag days'
[07:53:53] <Dan York> Peter Spacek at mic
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[07:54:10] <Dan York> Petr Spacek, to be correct
[07:54:51] <Dan York> Ralph Dolmans at mic
[07:55:57] <Dan York> Paul now talking about https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/103/materials/slides-103-dnsop-running-root-servers-locally-01
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[07:59:32] and privacy
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[08:00:53] <Dan York> Mukund S at mic
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[08:01:49] <Tony Finch> MIC: do we really need this if we have NSEC negative answer synthesis + prefetching + serve-stale?
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[08:02:53] <Peter van Dijk> 7706 refers to a draft version of aggressive nsec, even
[08:02:55] <Dan2> Ok. Will relay
[08:03:54] this survives a reboot
[08:04:08] <Dan2> Wes Hardaker at mic
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[08:04:56] <Shane Kerr> Knot Resovler can have a persistent cache, and that survives reboots too. ;-)
[08:05:38] it survives the roots being unreachable for weeks
[08:05:56] <Peter van Dijk> that's a very niche scenario
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[08:06:04] <Tony Finch> :-)
[08:06:13] <Dan2> Ondrej Surý at mic
[08:06:46] I haven't complained yet:-)
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[08:07:50] <Dan2> John Levine at mic
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[08:08:31] you can only be so stale with DNSSEC
[08:08:43] <Peter van Dijk> 13 days apparently
[08:08:51] <Peter van Dijk> was just looking at that
[08:08:59] <Dan2> Ralf Weber at mic
[08:09:46] different flags is not a real issue
[08:09:53] <Dan2> (Almost there, Tony)
[08:10:07] <Tony Finch> dan: no worries :-)
[08:10:49] <Suzanne> just heard John L's comment at the mic about root server operators being told what to do….IME they don't like to be *told* things but participate quite actively in technical discussions about what they *could* or *should* do….if anyone's curious, several of them are in the room :)
[08:12:05] <Dan2> Petr Spacek at mic
[08:12:28] <Dan2> (Me channeling Tony)
[08:12:56] <Spamvictim> I was being polite
[08:13:30] <Tony Finch> petr: thanks :-)
[08:13:44] <Dan2> Petr again
[08:14:13] <Dan York> Dan York at mic
[08:14:17] <Dan York> Brian Dickson at mic
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[08:16:31] <Dan York> Now Alex Mayrhofer at mic presenting https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/103/materials/slides-103-dnsop-the-decentralized-identifier-did-in-the-dns-00
[08:23:12] Benno Overeinder leaves the room
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[08:25:40] <Dan York> Jim Reid at mic
[08:26:20] <Dan York> Paul Hoffman up in front presenting https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/103/materials/slides-103-dnsop-iana-registry-for-special-labels-in-the-dns-00
[08:27:49] <Dan York> Paul's asking if there is interest
[08:28:25] <Dan York> Ondrej Sury at mic thanking Paul
[08:28:32] <Dan York> Petr Spacek at mic
[08:28:52] Roland van Rijswijk-Deij leaves the room
[08:29:30] <Dan York> Next - Ladislav Lhotka and Petr Spacek in front presenting https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/103/materials/slides-103-dnsop-yang-types-for-dns-classes-and-resource-record-types-00
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[08:36:09] <Dan York> Ondrej Sury at mic
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[08:37:35] <Dan York> Ian Farrer at mic
[08:37:53] <Dan York> Wes Hardaker at mic
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[08:39:13] <Dan York> Paul Hoffman is back up presenting https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/103/materials/slides-103-dnsop-associating-a-doh-server-with-a-resolver-01
[08:43:50] <Dan York> While we are all here... I asked on the dnsop list... it would be great to get some more eyes and reviews on https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-york-dnsop-deploying-dnssec-crypto-algs-01 - During the recent Root KSK Rollover, I had people asking about "why is DNSSEC so hard to upgrade?"
[08:44:15] <Dan York> (please send comments to me or to the list)
[08:44:44] <Shane Kerr> You could shorten the question to be, "why is DNSSEC so hard?" ;)
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[08:45:47] <Peter van Dijk> I propose going even further to 'Why is DNSSEC?'
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[08:46:19] <Shane Kerr> LOL
[08:46:22] <Shane Kerr> Byeeeee....
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[08:46:25] <each> I know, why can't we have *easy* cryptographically secured data integrity and nonexistence proofs.
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[08:47:00] <Witold Krecicki> ... and it could make coffee too
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[08:47:10] <Witold Krecicki> (or tea with milk)
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