IETF
dnsop
dnsop@jabber.ietf.org
Tuesday, July 18, 2017< ^ >
Dan York has set the subject to: IETF 98 DNSOP
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[13:39:50] <each> good $localtime, am I in the correct spacetime for dnsop?
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[13:48:00] <Adeola Alain Patrick AINA> it is ietf99 or ietf90?
[13:48:22] <Suzanne > hello out there in radio land, people are filing in for DNSOP 99 (OK, it's IETF 99, but sometimes it feels like DNSOP 99 too)
[13:49:18] <Adeola Alain Patrick AINA> slide indicates ietf90
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[13:49:47] each has set the subject to: IETF 99 DNSOP
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[13:52:29] <Suzanne > IETF 90 was probably here too :)
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[13:53:30] <Peter van Dijk> Toronto, Canada apparently
[13:54:00] <Viktor Dukhovni> Any chance algo negotiation could be discussed today rather than thursday?  I have a conflict with uta (STS) on Thursday.
[13:54:10] <each> I think IETF 69 was in prague. (my first was IETF 70.)
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[13:54:36] <Peter van Dijk> 68
[13:54:45] <Peter van Dijk> 68, 80, 93, 99
[13:54:52] <joel jaeggli> meeting commencing
[13:54:55] <joel jaeggli> note well
[13:55:16] <joel jaeggli> agenda
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[13:56:09] <joel jaeggli> document status
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[13:58:01] <joel jaeggli> paul hoffman -
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[13:58:44] <joel jaeggli> suzanne wolfe
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[14:05:14] <joel jaeggli> viktor dukhovni
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[14:06:45] <joel jaeggli> tsig  - moris
[14:08:15] <joel jaeggli> paul hoffman speaking
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[14:10:43] <joel jaeggli> george michaelson -
[14:12:39] <joel jaeggli> suzanne wolfe
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[14:14:15] <joel jaeggli> next presentation - c-dns
[14:14:19] <joel jaeggli> jim hague speaking
[14:14:30] <Andrew Sullivan> speaking as one of the editors who just did the I-D a complete read-through, I will note that I was slightly surprised in a couple occasions, so review would be helpful
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[14:20:34] <Andrew Sullivan> I am always surprised when people claim that something is "absolutely not required".  I have never experienced the case where someone was storing pared-down data and didn't later get a request for something else that they pared out.
[14:22:26] <each> I gather there's some effort under way to standardize dnstap as an informational RFC, and I hope the authors of the two efforts are talking to each other
[14:24:18] <joel jaeggli> jurgen  surgen speaking
[14:24:27] <joel jaeggli> schoenwalder
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[14:25:54] <joel jaeggli> sara dickenson
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[14:26:59] <joel jaeggli> next presentation - wes hardker
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[14:27:12] <joel jaeggli> rfc 5011 security considerations
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[14:29:51] <joel jaeggli> mike st johns -
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[14:31:12] <Matthijs Mekking> I don't get it. Remove wait time does not rely on DNSKEYs anymore, so why does it need to be in the math function?
[14:31:47] <Matthijs Mekking> I probably should catch up on that mail thread
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[14:33:40] <joel jaeggli> mike st johns
[14:34:35] <joel jaeggli> warren kumari
[14:34:59] <joel jaeggli> olafur gundmanson
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[14:35:54] <joel jaeggli> tim wicinski
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[14:36:39] <each> speaking as an implementer, +1 on using interval time, please
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[14:36:53] <joel jaeggli> next presentation - anme
[14:36:57] <joel jaeggli> aname
[14:37:07] <joel jaeggli> peter can dijk
[14:37:15] <joel jaeggli> van
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[14:39:26] <Andrew Sullivan> I quite like the RDATA in that A record
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[14:42:03] <joel jaeggli> ondrej sury
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[14:43:07] <joel jaeggli> stephan bortmeyer
[14:44:01] <joel jaeggli> benno overreinder
[14:45:50] <joel jaeggli> john levine
[14:47:22] <each> srv records are already allowed at apex?
[14:47:53] <joel jaeggli> ondrej celetka
[14:48:04] <Olafur> online signing is easy
[14:49:04] <joel jaeggli> andrew sullivan
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[14:52:05] <joel jaeggli> next presentation - dnsop session signal
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[14:52:43] <John Levine> @each SRV is allowed, but so are A and AAAA and MX
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[14:54:46] <Peter van Dijk> I am missing history from :36 to :51, basically the time I stood there talking, can somebody paste that to me?
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[14:56:33] <Peter van Dijk> @andrew this was the second time i showed this deck and you're the first to notice the truncated A ;)
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[14:57:14] <Andrew Sullivan> I probably didn't notice it before either.  I'm just easily amused :-D
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[14:57:35] <Peter van Dijk> :D
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[14:58:11] <each> mea culpa for not reviewing the slides in a timely fashion, 'cause I noticed it when I did, but figured it was already too late to update.
[14:58:29] <Peter van Dijk> except for Andrew I don't think it distracted from the story ;)
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[15:01:18] <Peter van Dijk> fixed f
[15:01:20] <Peter van Dijk> [master c6723e7] oops, thanks Andrew Sullivan
[15:01:21] <Peter van Dijk> fixed for next time
[15:02:09] <joel jaeggli> christian huitema
[15:02:52] <joel jaeggli> sarah dickensen
[15:04:26] <Andrew Sullivan> it strikes me that dynamic update solves this with prereqs
[15:04:33] <Andrew Sullivan> presumably for the same reasons.
[15:04:57] <joel jaeggli> stuart cheshire
[15:07:03] <joel jaeggli> ted lemon
[15:07:23] <tale > quite.  i honestly thought it was headed in the pre-reqs direction already
[15:08:06] <joel jaeggli> andrew sullivan
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[15:08:57] <joel jaeggli> ?
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[15:09:07] <tale > petr spacek
[15:09:14] <joel jaeggli> thanks
[15:09:48] <joel jaeggli> sarah continues
[15:10:13] <Andrew Sullivan> I like it that this week (and indeed, perhaps since the IAB announced its workshop) people seem to keep almost reaching the conclusion that DNS needs to be replaced.
[15:10:46] <Peter van Dijk> yes, it's important to realise how dead this horse is we keep sewing things on to
[15:10:55] <Peter van Dijk> or, you know, less friendly alternative verbs
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[15:12:03] <Olafur> DNS-ng is overdue
[15:12:15] <joel jaeggli> ondrej surrey
[15:12:22] <Jacques Latour> ngDNS
[15:12:35] <each> the dead horse has been compressed into the shape of a hammer and everything looks like a nail
[15:13:18] <John C Klensin> @ajs: I note "almost" in your comment, and then start thinking about deployment problems, vested economic interests, etc.
[15:13:56] <tale > I shall bring my chainsaw to process this horse nail
[15:14:21] <joel jaeggli> ted lemon
[15:15:01] <Andrew Sullivan> @John: yes
[15:15:29] <Andrew Sullivan> We have a Revised Underpants Gnomes Business Model:
[15:15:41] <Andrew Sullivan> 1.  Replace the DNS 2 … 3. Profit!
[15:16:03] <joel jaeggli> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/dd/Gnomes_plan.png
[15:16:38] <joel jaeggli> matt hanset
[15:16:52] <Andrew Sullivan> Pounsett
[15:17:10] <tale > which is more worth the gigantic work effort, harmonizing the existing multitentacled dns specs or pushing ahead with dns-ng in all its deployment hell?
[15:17:36] <joel jaeggli> it's not going to work so don't worry about that
[15:18:01] <Andrew Sullivan> @tale: what Joel said
[15:18:19] <joel jaeggli> stuart chesire
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[15:18:29] <joel jaeggli> ted lemon
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[15:19:12] <joel jaeggli> stuart chesire
[15:19:46] <each> gigantic work effort alternative c) invent a time machine and fix dns in ~1986
[15:19:48] <Suzanne > @joelja does that make TIm and me the gnomes….?
[15:20:31] <Andrew Sullivan> @each I like that because it provides its own deployment incentive.  OTOH, the goal will probably not be achieved for want of developers not playing with time.
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[15:20:54] <tale > I'd prefer you give us teleportation technology before time travel, each
[15:21:32] <marco@nl> tough choice...
[15:21:38] <joel jaeggli> francis dupont
[15:21:40] <each> I suspect, like most time travelers, I'd just end up going to Woodstock
[15:21:46] <marco@nl> ha!
[15:22:01] <tale > or burning man WHEN IT WAS COOL
[15:22:26] <joel jaeggli> tom pusateri
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[15:22:43] <Andrew Sullivan> This discussion is cool mostly because the scope appears that it keeps getting bigger.
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[15:22:53] <Peter van Dijk> soon -this- will be dns-ng
[15:23:25] <joel jaeggli> tim wicinski
[15:24:03] <Andrew Sullivan> The answer is, "Yes, we are going to create breakage.  It's the DNS."
[15:24:09] <joel jaeggli> next presentation
[15:24:27] <joel jaeggli> bulk rr for numerica record generation
[15:24:36] <joel jaeggli> john woodworth
[15:26:09] <Suzanne > David Lawrence is speaking, John Woodworth is the original author
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[15:27:55] <joel jaeggli> ok
[15:28:13] <John Woodworth> thx
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[15:30:53] <joel jaeggli> peter
[15:31:05] <joel jaeggli> ralph weber
[15:31:17] <joel jaeggli> paul
[15:31:37] <joel jaeggli> john levine
[15:33:22] <John Woodworth> bulk is not just for ipv6, it helps solve the same ipv4 issue
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[15:34:07] <joel jaeggli> ondrej sury
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[15:35:06] <Olafur> NSEC5 for Bulk :-(
[15:35:14] <Dean Ballew> forwards as well, in e.g. ARIN SWIPs
[15:35:16] <John Levine> sheesh, if you're going to invent a new kind of key that caches have to understand, why not just make the caches undertand how to expand BULK
[15:35:20] <joel jaeggli> andrew sullivan
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[15:37:10] <joel jaeggli> arnold ?
[15:38:35] <joel jaeggli> next presentation - serve stale
[15:38:41] <joel jaeggli> david lawrence
[15:41:14] <Andrew Sullivan> I am sad to note that I have been working with the DNS long enough that I remember when the problem was people ignoring TTLs and extending the life of names when we didn't want them to, because the authority changed
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[15:41:24] <Andrew Sullivan> and now we're figuring out how to do that on purpose
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[15:42:40] <joel jaeggli> ralph weber
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[15:44:01] <Andrew Sullivan> DNSOP creates a DDOS vector for the IETF's IPR declaration system?
[15:44:17] <joel jaeggli> warren kumari
[15:44:59] <joel jaeggli> benno overreinder
[15:46:34] <joel jaeggli> ondrej sury
[15:47:56] <joel jaeggli> giovani
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[15:48:44] <joel jaeggli> stephen morris next presentation
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[15:50:12] <joel jaeggli> olafur
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[15:54:51] <Andrew Sullivan> I have recently learned that one important resolver never even goes to the child for the NS record anyway
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[15:56:20] <joel jaeggli> lars johan
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[15:56:30] <tale > Some of us have a boat ride to get to!
[15:56:45] <joel jaeggli> yes indeed
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[15:57:47] <Suzanne > the "let's do more interims" plan is motivated by the fact we always have time problems in the f2f sessions
[15:57:57] <joel jaeggli> matt poundsett
[15:58:10] <Andrew Sullivan> and always have problem getting reviews on list &c &c :)
[15:58:12] <Suzanne > apologies to all who were choosing between us and the social :)
[15:58:36] <joel jaeggli> warren
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[15:59:47] <Suzanne > there's a webex set up to be available on demand just for dnsop, so we're always happy to meet with editors, reviewers, etc.
[16:00:00] <Suzanne > but the occasional formal interim may help also
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[16:00:19] <each> shane kerr
[16:01:05] <each> (though if shane doesn't already have the nickname "shanker", he probably should, now.)
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[16:02:20] <joel jaeggli> done
[16:02:23] <Andrew Sullivan> I remain amazed by the number of people who insist that, because they have a database back end, they didn't need zone version numbering.  
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