IETF
dnsop
dnsop@jabber.ietf.org
Tuesday, November 15, 2016< ^ >
DanYork has set the subject to: DNSOP at IETF96
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[00:24:23] bortzmeyer has set the subject to: DNSOP at IETF97
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[04:23:58] <DanYork2> Hello, DNSOP
[04:24:09] <DanYork2> I'll be relaying from Jabber today
[04:24:59] <DanYork2> Please preface anything you want relayed to the mic with "mic:"
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[04:26:49] <Ralph Droms> Hi, Dan.
[04:27:06] <DanYork2> Hello Ralph
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[04:29:45] <Suzanne (co-chair)> welcome everybody, we'll be getting started in a moent
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[04:30:11] <DanYork2> Meeting materials are at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/97/materials#dnsop
[04:30:15] <marka> howdy.  on meetcho as well
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[04:31:15] <DanYork2> Chair's slides: https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/97/slides/slides-97-dnsop-chairs-slides-01.pdf
[04:31:26] <DanYork2> Please preface anything you want relayed to the mic with "mic:"
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[04:33:34] <DanYork2> We're up to slide 7 of chair's slides
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[04:35:16] <DanYork2> slide 8
[04:35:18] <ray> The cake is a lie
[04:35:56] <Suzanne (co-chair)> In Chicago we'll be 3 years past rechartering, and a lot has been done— look for a summary. And maybe cake.
[04:36:49] <DanYork2> slide 9
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[04:38:11] <DanYork2> Terry Manderson at mic
[04:38:28] <DanYork2> Paul Hoffman at mic
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[04:38:54] <DanYork2> Slide 10
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[04:42:17] <DanYork2> Slide 13
[04:42:41] <Andrew Sullivan> is there a reason to run rpz though here?
[04:42:48] <Andrew Sullivan> don't the authors control the spec?
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[04:43:14] <Suzanne (co-chair)> they want to document it….something about interoperability ;-)
[04:43:21] <Andrew Sullivan> sure, that's my point
[04:43:28] <Andrew Sullivan> no need for it to be a WG document
[04:43:48] <Andrew Sullivan> infomation of that sort an excellent candidate for independent submission
[04:43:52] <Andrew Sullivan> quick and painless
[04:44:05] <Andrew Sullivan> (not that I care.  Just seems faster and easier)
[04:44:07] <DanYork2> Andrew Sullivan: you mean to do it as ISE?
[04:44:10] <ray> at the discussion Sunday there was a query over whether an informational doc ought to use RFC 2119 normative language
[04:44:40] <Andrew Sullivan> for a document that explains a protocol that is not an IETF standard, yes, 2119 language is fine
[04:44:47] <DanYork2> Up to slide 16
[04:45:07] <ray> ajs: thanks - I’ll relay that back to the RPZ guys
[04:45:08] <DanYork2> Paul Hoffman at mic
[04:45:10] <Andrew Sullivan> but anyway, I don't want to nit pick here.  Just a faster suggestions
[04:45:12] <Andrew Sullivan> suggestion
[04:45:18] <DanYork2> We're on slide 17
[04:45:24] <ray> ajs: the suggestion to go ISE that is
[04:45:27] <Suzanne (co-chair)> @Andrew: I think they're interested in comment whether it's a WG doc or not; I wouldn't mind stopping there
[04:46:38] <DanYork2> Paul now talking about DNS-over-HTTP
[04:46:42] <Andrew Sullivan> right.  Nothing stopping the WG from sending comments.
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[04:49:30] <DanYork2> The Bar BoF on DNS over HTTP will be at 6:45pm in Studio 7.
[04:49:42] <DanYork2> (Note that there will NOT actually be a Bar.)
[04:50:23] <DanYork2> Stuart Cheshire up to talk about DNS Session Signaling
[04:50:26] <DanYork2> Slides: https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/97/slides/slides-97-dnsop-session-signaling-00.pdf
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[04:53:43] <karan verma> sound not good
[04:53:49] <karan verma> please chk
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[04:54:37] <Mark Andrews> no audio problems here in Sydney via meetecho
[04:54:43] <DanYork2> Wes Hardaker at mic
[04:54:56] <Meetecho> audio should be up and running
[04:55:17] <karan verma> know its fine
[04:56:17] <tale> as I was the one who was going to norm RPZ to 2119, I'm already here. :)
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[04:56:25] <Mark Andrews> sorry for the ambiguous messages "audio fine here"
[04:56:40] <DanYork2> Ray Bellis speaking at mic
[04:58:53] <DanYork2> Slides: https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/97/slides/slides-97-dnsop-ipv4arpaonly-00.pdf
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[05:01:23] <bortzmeyer> "make ipv4only.arpa special again" ?
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[05:03:27] <DanYork2> Andrew Sullivan at mic
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[05:05:57] <Suzanne (co-chair)> @bortzmeyer: too soon.
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[05:07:28] <DanYork2> Erik Kline at mic
[05:08:07] <tale> yay to dead dns64
[05:08:12] <DanYork2> :-)
[05:08:26] <DanYork2> Paul Hoffman at mic
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[05:09:49] <DanYork2> Peter Koch at mic
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[05:12:23] <DanYork2> Warren Kumari at mic
[05:13:08] <DanYork2> Matt Poundsett at mic
[05:13:33] <DanYork2> s/Poundsett/Pounsett/
[05:13:56] <DanYork2> Andrew Sullivan at mic
[05:15:26] <DanYork2> Stephane Bortzmeyer at mic
[05:15:30] <DanYork2> Slides: https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/97/slides/slides-97-dnsop-dns-delegation-requirements-00.pdf
[05:15:48] <DanYork2> (Stephane presenting)
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[05:17:47] <DanYork2> Jim Reid at mic
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[05:18:38] <DanYork2> Paul Hoffman at mic
[05:19:13] <Andrew Sullivan> I'm not going to get up but I think this draft is the sort of bossypants document that causes a big fight and ossifies a bunch of rules that later turn out to hit
[05:19:16] <Andrew Sullivan> hurt even
[05:20:08] <Meetecho> FYI to chairs: Mark Andrews in virtual queue
[05:20:20] <DanYork2> Andrew Sullivan: On the other hand, it gives vendors and implementors a target for developing tests... rather than trying to sort through 293 RFCs to figure out what to test.
[05:20:29] <DanYork2> George Michaelson at mic
[05:20:50] <tale> certainly has happened with the existing nic.fr tool, though i appreciate stephane's pov
[05:21:12] <Andrew Sullivan> If someone wanted to publish an informational that said, "We think this is a useful set of tests and here's what our tests do," then I'd be all in favour
[05:21:13] <DanYork2> John Levine at mic
[05:21:32] <DanYork2> Andrew Sullivan: Is your concern that it is a BCP?
[05:21:34] <Suzanne (co-chair)> @meetecho thx
[05:21:49] <Andrew Sullivan> That it wants to do that, and that it's silly advice for many domains
[05:22:10] <Andrew Sullivan> for instance, I might have delegations beneath my own name.  Do I really need multiple ASes?
[05:22:16] <Andrew Sullivan> but that's what tools are going to implement
[05:22:38] <DanYork2> Mark Andrews coming in virtually
[05:22:39] <Andrew Sullivan> the history of LDH ending up as the only kind of "domain name" is an example of this
[05:23:48] <DanYork2> Olafur Gudmundsson at mic
[05:23:58] <Andrew Sullivan> Olafur and I are apparently agreeing
[05:24:27] <DanYork2> Andrew Sullivan: Let the record show......  ;-)
[05:25:02] <Andrew Sullivan> We are now in fact agreeing strongly
[05:25:37] <tale> i can see the value in a document that described what the tool is doing, but don't see why that would be an ietf doc
[05:25:46] <DanYork2> Peter Koch at mic
[05:25:49] <Andrew Sullivan> let alone a BCP
[05:26:18] <Andrew Sullivan> What Peter is saying is true
[05:26:41] <Andrew Sullivan> We ended with a doc that said, "You might want to think about X, or maybe not.  Up to you."  Still couldn't get consensus
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[05:30:11] <Suzanne (co-chair)> @AJS we got consensus on the current ip6rdns by going a lot less prescriptive though
[05:30:22] <DanYork2> Ed Lewis at mic
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[05:31:20] <kal> frustrated with the diverse AS requirement. I support what others have said there. the serial check also has to be subjective, yet it is described strictly, with an odd caveat that ends 6.1 saying the serial may be different.
[05:31:49] <DanYork2> David Conrad at mic
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[05:32:25] <DanYork2> Jim Reid at mic
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[05:32:57] <DanYork2> Paul Hoffman at mic
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[05:35:11] <Andrew Sullivan> Good lord.  The idea that we're going to point to public suffixes gives me hives
[05:35:27] <Andrew Sullivan> So on this document, I now agree with both Olafur and Paul
[05:35:37] <Andrew Sullivan> Who appear to agree with each other
[05:35:37] <Suzanne (co-chair)> @ajs I hear there's medication for that.
[05:35:58] <Andrew Sullivan> is there some sort of portal that opens up if we all agree with someone else?
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[05:36:04] <DanYork2> Ondrej Sury at mic
[05:36:40] <DanYork2> Andrew Sullivan: Wow... that combination of agreement is a bit scary. Are you okay?
[05:37:13] <Andrew Sullivan> I warned people before I left home that I'm now so cheerful nobody at the IETF would recognise me.  Maybe I was right
[05:37:28] <DanYork2> Hahaha
[05:37:34] <Andrew Sullivan> They're going to revoke my domain name at this rate
[05:37:46] <DanYork2> Next up... Sara Dickinson presenting
[05:37:54] <DanYork2> Slides: https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/97/slides/slides-97-dnsop-dns-packet-capture-format-00.pdf
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[05:39:19] <DanYork2> Slide 2
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[05:41:46] <DanYork2> Slide 3
[05:41:51] <DanYork2> Slide 4
[05:42:02] <DanYork2> Slide 5
[05:42:32] <DanYork2> Slide 6
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[05:46:27] <Andrew Sullivan> To be clear, the WG is never going to be in a position to comment on the IPR claims
[05:46:43] <DanYork2> Slide 8 about an IPR disclosure that was sent to the list today. Sara and team have not yet had a chance to look at the claim.
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[05:47:17] <Andrew Sullivan> But my point is that while Sara or anyone else can make determinations for their own purposes, the WG and the IETF cannot
[05:47:24] <Andrew Sullivan> we do not take positions on IPR claims
[05:47:35] <Suzanne (co-chair)> @ajs yes, will say that in the room
[05:48:02] <ray> NB: the claim is a third party disclosure, of something that *may* have implications - it’s not a first party declaration of belief that it does infringe
[05:48:22] <DanYork2> Shane Kerr at mic
[05:48:46] <DanYork2> George Michaelson at mic
[05:49:19] <DanYork2> Andrew Sullivan: Understood
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[05:51:21] <DanYork2> Wes Hardaker at mic
[05:53:20] <Mark Andrews> hummmmm
[05:53:23] <DanYork2> Hum if you think it should be adopted
[05:53:56] <DanYork2> IF YOU ARE REMOTE PLEASE SAY "Hum <for what>"
[05:54:06] <DanYork2> since there is sometimes a lag
[05:54:28] <DanYork2> Kazunori Fujiwara presenting now. Slides: https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/97/slides/slides-97-dnsop-resolver-update-01.pdf
[05:55:31] <Suzanne (co-chair)> @Dan thanks, we'll be more careful re: remote next time, that was probably a little too quick. We will also be sending a call for adoption to the mailing list— the hum in the room is informative, not normative :)
[05:56:39] <DanYork2> Suzanne (co-chair): Understood ... just asking remote folks to help. Thanks.
[05:56:59] <Andrew Sullivan> I didn't read this draft (ran out of time), but now I'm feeling regret
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[05:57:20] <Andrew Sullivan> isn't this a redux of a discussion we had like 10 years ago?
[05:57:55] <ray> before my time, but it would make changing your domain’s NS records a real pain unless every domain registry offered the ability to drop the parent-side NS TTLs in advance of a change
[05:58:09] <Andrew Sullivan> (doesn't mean it's a bad idea, but I think previous objections were raised)
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[05:58:17] <Andrew Sullivan> @Ray: yeah, that's one of the objections I recall
[05:58:31] <DanYork2> We're up to Slide 5
[05:58:54] <DanYork2> Last slide 6
[05:59:24] <DanYork2> Olafur at mic
[06:00:36] <DanYork2> Ondrej Sury at mic
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[06:01:50] <Andrew Sullivan> must be in sync but will never be used == no need to be in sync == gee will this break fast
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[06:02:19] <DanYork2> Witold Krecicki at mic
[06:02:24] <Andrew Sullivan> an attempt to instruct the Internet to add more latency is also probably not going to work.  Just guessing.
[06:02:41] <DanYork2> :-)
[06:02:52] <Andrew Sullivan> It certainly wouldn't have been MUST
[06:02:57] <Andrew Sullivan> or you wouldn't be able to change your nameservers
[06:03:18] <bortzmeyer> "It SHOULD be a MUST" :-)
[06:03:18] <ray> unless you dropped the TTLs at the parent first… :p
[06:03:32] <DanYork2> Ed Lewis at mic
[06:03:43] <Andrew Sullivan> Ok, there it is.  Now I agree with Ed too
[06:04:25] <DanYork2> Andrew Sullivan: Can we look for a window to see if there are airborne porcine objects?
[06:04:33] <DanYork2> Peter Koch at mic
[06:04:57] <kal> support Ed's comments re NS mismatch. it can occur during operator transition.
[06:05:00] <Suzanne (co-chair)> @ajs, I'm pretty sure *adding* latency is generally trivial. It's *reducing* latency that causes all the woe and makes all the fortunes.
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[06:05:16] <Andrew Sullivan> For the chairs: there's someone in remote queue
[06:05:17] <Andrew Sullivan> looks like
[06:05:46] <DanYork2> Mark Andrews virtually commenting
[06:06:19] <ray> funny that we’re talking about ghosts given how Mark was represented as a pac-man ghost on the Meetecho screen :)
[06:06:22] <Andrew Sullivan> I have a suspicion that a document that said, "resolver strategy considerations for how to deal with NS records" would be good
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[06:06:29] <Andrew Sullivan> changing the algorithm maybe less so
[06:06:44] <Simon Romano> :-)
[06:06:50] <DanYork2> Matt Pounsett presenting - Slides: https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/97/slides/slides-97-dnsop-automated-transfer-signed-zones-00.pdf
[06:07:13] <DanYork2> ray: yes, that *was* amusing
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[06:07:35] <DanYork2> Slide 2
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[06:09:46] <Andrew Sullivan> I don't believe the WG should consider this
[06:09:48] <DanYork2> Up to Slide 5
[06:09:55] <Andrew Sullivan> (IPR question)
[06:10:38] <DanYork2> Andrew Sullivan: is that worth bringing to the mic?
[06:11:14] <Andrew Sullivan> Maybe
[06:11:42] <DanYork2> Andrew at mic
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[06:13:13] <DanYork2> Joel Jaeggli (AD) at mic
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[06:14:27] <DanYork2> Cal? at mic
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[06:14:50] <kal> Kal
[06:15:09] <DanYork2> Thank you!
[06:15:23] <kal> I didnt go to the front mic. sorry!
[06:15:30] <DanYork2> Kal Feher, correct?
[06:15:36] <kal> yes
[06:15:40] <DanYork2> thanks
[06:16:42] <DanYork2> Next presenter Jiankang Yao - Slides: https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/97/slides/slides-97-dnsop-dns-query-with-accompanying-questions-00.pdf
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[06:19:26] <DanYork2> And he whipped through those slides... we're done
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[06:21:17] <DanYork2> Paul Hoffman at mic
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[06:24:03] <DanYork2> Mukund Sivaraman presenting about https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-muks-dnsop-dns-catalog-zones-01
[06:25:15] <DanYork2> John Dickinson at mic
[06:25:35] <DanYork2> Wittold at mic
[06:26:11] <DanYork2> Konstantine ? at mic
[06:26:17] <DanYork2> Shane Kerr at mic
[06:26:30] <DanYork2> Me (Dan York) presenting really quickly about https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/97/slides/slides-97-dnsop-deploying-new-dnssec-cryptographic-algorithms-00.pdf
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[06:28:43] <DanYork2> Thank you all
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[09:25:56] Mauricio Vergara Ereche leaves the room
[09:29:11] tale leaves the room: Disconnected: closed
[09:36:44] bortzmeyer joins the room
[09:38:37] tale joins the room
[09:39:43] marka joins the room
[09:43:47] DanYork2 joins the room
[09:48:32] marka leaves the room: Replaced by new connection
[09:48:35] marka joins the room
[09:56:00] tale leaves the room: Disconnected: Replaced by new connection
[09:56:00] tale joins the room
[09:59:34] joel jaeggli leaves the room
[10:02:18] joel jaeggli joins the room
[10:03:38] joel jaeggli leaves the room
[10:04:09] Ted Lemon leaves the room
[10:07:36] tale leaves the room: Disconnected: closed
[10:09:07] joel jaeggli joins the room
[10:10:46] joel jaeggli leaves the room
[10:26:25] DanYork2 leaves the room
[10:39:55] marka leaves the room: Replaced by new connection
[10:40:02] marka joins the room
[10:53:43] Ted Lemon joins the room
[10:53:44] marka leaves the room
[10:54:51] bortzmeyer leaves the room
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[11:46:14] joel jaeggli leaves the room
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[11:59:47] marka leaves the room
[12:00:07] marka joins the room
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[12:05:00] Andrew Sullivan joins the room
[12:05:05] Ted Lemon leaves the room
[12:16:06] marka leaves the room
[12:21:17] Andrew Sullivan leaves the room
[12:41:07] Andrew Sullivan joins the room
[12:45:56] DanYork2 leaves the room: Disconnected: closed
[13:11:21] tale joins the room
[19:43:38] marka joins the room
[20:21:51] Ted Lemon joins the room
[20:38:21] marka leaves the room
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[21:04:46] marka joins the room
[21:06:10] DanYork2 leaves the room: Disconnected: Replaced by new connection
[21:06:10] DanYork2 joins the room
[22:33:32] joel jaeggli leaves the room
[22:39:33] joel jaeggli joins the room
[22:47:03] Andrew Sullivan leaves the room
[22:49:35] DanYork2 leaves the room: Disconnected: closed
[22:57:32] tale leaves the room: Disconnected: closed
[23:44:21] bortzmeyer joins the room
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