IETF
dnsop
dnsop@jabber.ietf.org
Friday, March 7, 2014< ^ >
Tim Wicinski has set the subject to: DNSOP meeting, IETF 89 London
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[08:54:56] <Dan York> Good morning, folks!  We're getting ready for another packed agenda here in London!
[08:56:35] pebersman joins the room
[08:57:14] SM joins the room
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[08:58:37] <Hosnieh Rafiee> the audio file
[08:58:40] <Hosnieh Rafiee> has problem
[08:58:42] <Hosnieh Rafiee> not found
[08:58:59] <Hosnieh Rafiee> anybody else has this problem?
[08:59:02] <SM> The stream has not started or there is some problem.
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[09:04:15] <Dan York> We're in http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/89/slides/slides-89-dnsop-3.pdf
[09:04:49] <Dan York> Now on slide 4 - Status Updates
[09:05:38] keith_nm joins the room
[09:06:25] Olafur Gudmundsson joins the room
[09:07:20] Peter Koch joins the room
[09:07:21] Jinmei Tatuya joins the room
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[09:07:52] <Dan York> Mark Andrews at mic
[09:07:55] Paul Wouters joins the room
[09:07:59] <SM> Thanks, Dan
[09:08:02] fdupont joins the room
[09:08:30] <Dan York> This AS112 slide deck is NOT on the materials site next
[09:08:40] <fdupont> no privacy but I expect a summary or minutes of DNSE II.
[09:08:48] <Paul Wouters> it's like, blackholed? :)
[09:08:56] <Dan York> Wes Hardaker at mic
[09:09:06] <Dan York> Paul Wouters: Ha!
[09:09:12] <fdupont> can't find as112 too.
[09:09:56] <Dan York> Andrew Sullivan at mic
[09:09:59] <fdupont> slide says: add AS112 DNAME redirect in 6304 stuff
[09:10:31] <Dan York> Paul Hoffman at mic
[09:10:31] Suz (co-chair) joins the room
[09:11:41] jelte joins the room
[09:12:47] <Dan York> me at mic
[09:12:58] <Dan York> Joe Abley IS in the house and will be presenting
[09:13:37] <Dan York> Slides should be available soon
[09:13:55] <Tim Wicinski> http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/89/slides/slides-89-dnsop-17.pdf
[09:14:04] <Dan York> Slide: "So, where are we?"
[09:14:13] <Tim Wicinski> that is joe's deck. apologies
[09:14:33] <Dan York> Slide 3
[09:14:35] <SM> The slides are blanks:)
[09:14:42] Carsten Strotmann joins the room
[09:15:27] <Hosnieh Rafiee> true
[09:15:28] <Hosnieh Rafiee> :)
[09:15:41] <Hosnieh Rafiee> probably they created it with secret ink
[09:16:01] <Hosnieh Rafiee> we have to warm it up to see it
[09:16:48] <Dan York> Hums being requested if the draft is ready to move forward
[09:17:02] <Dan York> Positive hum
[09:17:21] <Suz (co-chair)> @SM the slides I get at that link aren't blank
[09:17:33] <Dan York> Andrew Sullivan at mic
[09:17:45] <Hosnieh Rafiee> @Suz : but I also see it blank
[09:17:47] <SM> Suzanne, browser issue (HTTP folks know about it)
[09:18:07] <Suz (co-chair)> suspected as much, did want to check
[09:18:21] Ning Kong leaves the room
[09:18:23] Juan-Pedro Cerezo Martin joins the room
[09:18:46] <Dan York> Joel Jaeggli at mic
[09:20:06] <Dan York> Now in http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/89/slides/slides-89-dnsop-4.pdf
[09:20:11] <Dan York> Mark Andrews presenting
[09:22:27] <Tim Wicinski> the slide deck included in the pack is his full slide deck. he's using a smaller version for the talk
[09:23:11] <Andrew Sullivan> FWIW, I think Mark has misunderstood what he's been told.  The "just could not work" is not a technical problem, but a legal and contractual one.  The triple-R model is just not going to break its entire operational model in order to accommodate his trick here.
[09:24:14] Ning Kong joins the room
[09:26:43] <Dan York> Ralf Weber at mic
[09:27:20] <Dan York> IF YOU ARE REMOTE AND WANT SOMETHING RELAYED TO THE MIC, please preface it with "mic:" or "MIC:" or "relay:" or something else that gets my attention.
[09:27:32] <Dan York> Paul Hoffman at mic
[09:28:32] <Tim Wicinski> andrew - did you want me to mention your comment ?
[09:28:49] <Andrew Sullivan> I can go up if need be
[09:29:07] john.levine leaves the room
[09:30:01] <matthijs> Andrew: And do you think this new method will work in the legal world?
[09:30:28] <Dan York> Wes Hardaker at mic
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[09:31:10] john.levine leaves the room
[09:31:53] john.levine joins the room
[09:32:38] <Dan York> Andrew Sullivan at mic
[09:33:36] <fanf> andrew _really doesn’t like underscores
[09:34:49] <Dan York> Indeed!
[09:35:03] <Dan York> Patrik Wallstrom at mic
[09:36:44] <Dan York> Olaf Kolkman at mic
[09:36:51] <Andrew Sullivan> It's not that I don't like underscores exactly.  Yes, I think in-band signalling is an error, but in particular I think [stuff].signalstuff.[name] is a serious mistake
[09:37:20] <Andrew Sullivan> also, I should apologise for laughing.  I don't mean to create a chilly environment.  But I am pretty sure that the plan to set up the DNS Cops is going to be a failure
[09:37:32] <Dan York> Tony Finch
[09:37:40] <Dan York> (at mic)
[09:37:56] <Frederico A C Neves> To be fair to Mark he got to this design because we've being telling to no one touch the business relations among registrant-registrar-registry.
[09:38:01] <Dan York> Warren Kumari at mic
[09:39:24] <Andrew Sullivan> The business relations are not going to change.  I do not believe that Verisign is going to publish 120M SRVs for absolutely no business reason whatsoever.
[09:39:29] <matthijs> This design is a fork of a 5 year old proposal
[09:39:47] <matthijs> It is I think being revived because new proposals are now out: CSYNC and CDS
[09:40:11] <SM> The business relationships usually are seen as a hurdle.  I guess that Mark's concern is that it is not possible to get any technical change through
[09:40:18] <Frederico A C Neves> Registries will publish those records for the registrars that request it.
[09:41:39] <Dan York> Alexander Mayrhofer at mic
[09:44:06] <Dan York> Back in http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/89/slides/slides-89-dnsop-3.pdf
[09:44:21] <Dan York> Slide 5: Reviving Adopted Drafts
[09:44:25] <Dan York> Slide 6
[09:46:51] <Dan York> Stephene Bortzmeyer at mic
[09:47:17] <Frederico A C Neves> The publication could be done out of a DB. We don't need to stick to static zones to judge the feasibility of the proposal. Alexandre Mayrhofer proposal of using Weirds is a good idea.
[09:47:58] <Dan York> Peter Koch at mic presenting about this older document
[09:52:21] <Dan York> Paul Hoffman at mic
[09:52:48] <Dan York> Paul is offering to help
[09:53:15] <Dan York> Paul Ebersman also offered to help
[09:53:36] <Dan York> Back in http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/89/slides/slides-89-dnsop-3.pdf on slide 7
[09:53:40] <Dan York> Key Timing Draft
[09:54:35] Andrew Sullivan joins the room
[09:54:39] Andrew Sullivan leaves the room
[09:55:40] <Dan York> Peter Koch
[09:56:03] <marka> We missed doing the call for adoption of my document.  Mark
[09:56:49] <Dan York> matthijs mekking at mic
[09:59:45] <Dan York> Stephen Morris at mic
[10:00:28] <Dan York> Tony Finch at mic
[10:00:42] Andrew Sullivan joins the room
[10:01:06] <Dan York> Andrew Sullivan at mic
[10:01:06] Andrew Sullivan leaves the room
[10:02:10] <Dan York> Joe Abley at mic
[10:03:51] <Andrew Sullivan> <snark>there is no empirical evidence of any kind that this group can do anything quickly</snark>
[10:04:08] <SM> Andrew, have faith :-)
[10:04:14] <Dan York> Andrew Sullivan: :-)  So lets *change* that!
[10:04:28] <Andrew Sullivan> @Dan: that was what I was saying at the mic, though!
[10:05:01] <Dan York> I'm with you! :-)
[10:05:43] <Dan York> Slides: http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/89/slides/slides-89-dnsop-14.pdf
[10:05:54] <Dan York> Suzanne is presenting
[10:06:10] <Tim Wicinski> Andrew, I should have you talk to my boss
[10:06:32] <matthijs> There is a new air breathing, things will go in acceleration!
[10:06:58] <SM> Tim, ignore Andrew, he has been doing DNS for too long :-)
[10:07:31] <Tim Wicinski> Why do you think I have a whole section titled " (The Andrew Sullivan Memorial WG)"
[10:07:35] <Dan York> Slide 4: "What we're doing"
[10:07:49] <Dan York> Slide 5: "What we're not doing"
[10:08:17] <Andrew Sullivan> Dear me.  What did _I_ do?
[10:08:26] <Andrew Sullivan> I'm not even dead yet!
[10:09:06] <Dan York> Slide 6: "What we're not doing (2)"
[10:10:20] <Dan York> Slide 7: "Overview"
[10:11:12] <Dan York> RFC 6761 defines process: http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6761
[10:11:44] <Dan York> RFC 6762 was first registration (of .local) under RFC 6761 process: http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6762
[10:11:56] <Andrew Sullivan> That was Paul "High thread count is for sheets, not WGs" Hoffman
[10:11:58] <Dan York> Paul Hoffman at mic asking what the IESG asked us
[10:12:04] <Dan York> Joel Jaeggli at mic
[10:12:26] <Dan York> Andrew Sullivan: Ha!
[10:13:25] <Andrew Sullivan> I sort of like it that we are rapidly moving towards "La Nausée" as an IETF operational model
[10:14:31] <Dan York> Joel says: Not necessarily a rush to get this done... but we do have active drafts and need to work on these issues.
[10:14:39] <Dan York> John Klensin at mic
[10:15:35] <Dan York> Ralph Droms at mic
[10:16:41] Hugo Kobayashi joins the room
[10:18:31] <Dan York> Warren Kumari presenting now
[10:19:20] <Dan York> Slides: http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/89/slides/slides-89-dnsop-15.pdf
[10:19:36] <Dan York> Slide 2: What's the problem?
[10:21:28] <Dan York> Slide 3: "So?"
[10:22:02] <keith_nm> let's not forget .gprs
[10:22:20] <Dan York> Slide 4: ALT Special Use doc
[10:23:36] <Dan York> Slide 5: "Why?!"
[10:24:58] <Dan York> Slide 6: "Open Questions"
[10:25:44] <Dan York> Mic lines forming now
[10:25:50] <bortzmeyer> A Wiki to record usage? :-)
[10:26:04] <bortzmeyer> Oh, I remember someone already suggested using Wikipedia for that
[10:26:08] <Dan York> Should we just pass the mic around to everyone?
[10:27:00] <matthijs> Dan: I guess in that case dnsop will not end before minight
[10:27:01] <Dan York> John Klensin at mic
[10:27:15] <matthijs> minight -> midnight
[10:27:39] <Dan York> matthijs: good point! :-)
[10:29:19] <Dan York> Paul Hoffman at mic
[10:31:19] <Dan York> Antoin Verschuren at mic
[10:33:11] <Dan York> David Conrad at mic
[10:34:10] <Dan York> Andrew Sullivan at mic
[10:35:23] <Dan York> jelte jansen at mic
[10:35:26] <SM> :D
[10:35:53] <Dan York> Jonne Soininen at mic
[10:37:06] <jelte> i frame it as a joke, but i was quite serious, i'm tempted to suggest we should write a definition document 'what's in a [domain] name'
[10:37:24] <fanf> another one :-)
[10:37:24] <Andrew Sullivan> responding on the substance & so not at mic: I think if we're talking about an IANA registry in the .alt zone, then we're creating a new special-names registry that is just DNS.  The whole point of these is supposed to be that they'll not resolve in the DNS, and it's a mistake to try to co-ordinate them
[10:37:34] <jelte> as protocol identifiers are included now too
[10:37:45] <Dan York> ? at mic?
[10:37:48] <Andrew Sullivan> @jelte: the IAB did something along those lines some years ago
[10:38:09] <bortzmeyer> Dan York: Daniel Migault
[10:38:14] <Suz (co-chair)> Dan, I think that's Daniel Migault
[10:38:23] <Dan York> Ah, yes... it is.  Thanks.
[10:38:29] <jelte> what would mailto://jelte@example.bit.alt mean?
[10:38:34] <Dan York> Olaf Kolkman at mic
[10:38:55] <SM> That URI is invalid
[10:38:55] <bortzmeyer> jelte:  syntax error :-)
[10:39:39] <Andrew Sullivan> @jelte: that depends what the people running bit.alt are doing
[10:39:46] <Dan York> olaf says "what about internationalization?"
[10:39:58] <Andrew Sullivan> probably the answer is, "mail bounces"
[10:40:07] <Ning Kong> RFC 4501: Domain Name System Uniform Resource Identifiers
[10:40:23] <Dan York> Next controversy
[10:40:55] <Andrew Sullivan> but it's entirely open to the possibility that there's a name-resolution protocol that would allow it, just as it is possible (though useless) to send mail to example.local.
[10:41:04] <jelte> i tend to think of namespaces as different lookup paths with the same algorithm, but we are talking about different lookup algorithms here (and perhaps even different next-layer protocols as well)
[10:41:05] Marco Davids joins the room
[10:41:18] <SM> Andrew, actually no, people do it
[10:41:19] Stephen joins the room
[10:41:20] <jelte> so i don't think even 'namespaces' covers it
[10:41:41] <Andrew Sullivan> I know people do, but it's not very interesting, and it's not really the _inter_net.
[10:41:59] rbarnes joins the room
[10:42:07] <SM> Well, that brings us to whether the protocols are used outside the Internet.
[10:42:30] <jelte> blue pill or red pill?
[10:42:37] <SM> Bar
[10:42:46] <Dan York> Now on slide 7 of http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/89/slides/slides-89-dnsop-16.pdf
[10:42:51] <Andrew Sullivan> no, the point is that .local works only on the LAN.  Therefore by definition, it's not part of the _Inter_net.
[10:43:04] <Dan York> Olafur Gudmundsson is the presenter
[10:43:05] <SM> Andrew, I understood your point
[10:44:31] <Andrew Sullivan> Sigh.  Classes don't work.  CNAME breaks them
[10:44:34] <SM> Wait, Olafur should avoid classes:)
[10:44:48] Stephen leaves the room
[10:44:52] <Dan York> Slide 8: Proposals
[10:46:19] <Dan York> Now seeking comments
[10:46:26] <Dan York> Wes Hardaker at mic
[10:47:29] <Andrew Sullivan> I think the idea that this WG can take over URIs is perhaps a little optimistic
[10:47:46] <Dan York> +1 to Wes on not doing anything for registration
[10:47:59] <bortzmeyer> Andrew Sullivan: yes, taking over the US gov. root is enough work already :-)
[10:48:35] <Andrew Sullivan> I object to the term "US gov. root".  It's not that, and I don't think throwing around geopolitics that way helps us in any way to think clearly about this.
[10:48:51] <Suz (co-chair)> @Andrew: dnssd not part of the internet either?
[10:49:03] <Dan York> Paul Hoffman at mic
[10:49:14] <bortzmeyer> Andrew Sullivan: at least, it's true, unlike "ICANN root" (or, worse, Klensins's "normal root") which are misleading
[10:49:21] rbarnes leaves the room
[10:49:29] rbarnes joins the room
[10:49:33] <SM> Klensin also has a root?
[10:49:33] <Andrew Sullivan> dnssd is part of the Internet because it is defined to work using standard DNS queries
[10:50:03] <Andrew Sullivan> The root zone we are talking about is the single, IANA-administered DNS root
[10:50:21] <Dan York> Richard Barnes at mic
[10:50:24] rbarnes leaves the room
[10:50:31] <Andrew Sullivan> calling it the "US government root" is tendentious and needlessly political for this discussion
[10:50:45] <jelte> classes won't work anyway because some types have been defined classless, and sorting that out can probably keep us busy for quite some time
[10:50:45] Stephen joins the room
[10:50:48] <Andrew Sullivan> it is an attempt to haul in various political questions that do not help clarity of thinking about this.
[10:51:03] <Andrew Sullivan> @jelte: right.  the first of those is CNAME
[10:51:33] Frederico A C Neves leaves the room
[10:51:35] <Andrew Sullivan> which means that the namespaces across classes can't possibly be actually separate
[10:51:45] <jelte> right
[10:51:53] Stephen leaves the room
[10:51:56] <Dan York> warren kumari at mic
[10:52:06] rbarnes joins the room
[10:52:06] <jelte> i seem to need to widen my definition of 'namespace' as well
[10:52:13] <bortzmeyer> Andrew Sullivan:  OK, then what is the name of the body which has to approve every change to the root in writing before they can be implemented by Verisign?
[10:52:15] <Paul Wouters> i would not mind if someone can kill the 747 in the ceiling
[10:52:37] <Andrew Sullivan> @bortzmeyer: that's irrelevant to the current discussion
[10:52:43] <SM> Stephane, politics? :-)
[10:52:56] <Andrew Sullivan> the question is not what the current administrative arrangements are, but what the technical implications of the situation are
[10:53:17] <Andrew Sullivan> if you are claiming that the only reason people want to do all this stuff is because of the current administrative arrangements for the IANA root, I claim you're mistaken
[10:53:21] Stephen joins the room
[10:53:32] <Andrew Sullivan> Apple didn't care about the US government when it took over .local.
[10:53:46] <rbarnes > Andrew: are you saying that's incorrect behavior?
[10:54:03] <jelte> A domain by any other name would resolve as badly
[10:54:27] <Andrew Sullivan> @rbarnes: I don't understand the question.  Antecedent of "that"?
[10:54:34] <Dan York> me at mic
[10:54:39] <Dan York> Joe Abley at mic
[10:54:50] <rbarnes > Andrew: Apple taking over .local without asking anyone
[10:55:19] <Andrew Sullivan> Ah. That's a part of the question
[10:55:24] <Dan York> Peter Koch at mic
[10:55:32] <SM> Richard, long story, many years, and I remember the review
[10:55:34] <Andrew Sullivan> this is all partly because way back in time, we could rely on an extremely stable root
[10:56:28] <Andrew Sullivan> At the time it was rude and had (and continues to have) operational consequences for the DNS root
[10:56:35] Frederico A C Neves joins the room
[10:56:53] <SM> There is a lot of junk which goes to the root
[10:56:54] <Dan York> John Klensin at mic
[10:56:57] <Andrew Sullivan> Given the administrative regime change around how the root is managed, however, now it is also dangerous
[10:57:17] <rbarnes > does anyone have a link to the stats on TLDs someone mentioned?
[10:58:24] <bortzmeyer> rbarnes: http://k.root-servers.org/
[10:58:56] <bortzmeyer> rbarnes: cancel my previous message, K-root does not show the TLD
[10:59:28] <rbarnes > bortzmeyer: thanks.  was looking for a graph of relative frequencies of TLDS
[10:59:31] <Dan York> John Klensin says: "Little tricks don't work. Big tricks can be funny."
[10:59:32] <rbarnes > heh, yeah
[10:59:43] <bortzmeyer> rbarnes: http://hedgehog.dns.icann.org/hedgehog/hedgehog.html
[11:00:17] <bortzmeyer> rbarnes: no, same problem :-(
[11:00:20] <Dan York> Paul Mockapetris at mic
[11:01:23] <rbarnes > bortzmeyer: is that "hedgehog" because the graphs have so many spikes?  :)
[11:02:00] <bortzmeyer> rbarnes: yes, http://hedgehog.dns.icann.org/hedgehog/hedgehog.html and select "QTYPE by most popular TLDs"
[11:02:03] <jelte> .yolo
[11:02:15] <matthijs> :)
[11:02:30] <Dan York> John Levine at mic
[11:02:40] <rbarnes > jelte: but you can only send one query to it
[11:03:08] <jelte> you only lookup once
[11:03:17] <pebersman> but it would be encouraging evolution to work for us.
[11:03:19] <Dan York> Warren Kumari at mic
[11:03:27] <jelte> does it respond with 'I also like to live dangerously"
[11:05:03] <Dan York> Back in http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/89/slides/slides-89-dnsop-3.pdf on slide 8
[11:06:43] <Hosnieh Rafiee> :coffee: what a long discussion
[11:06:58] <matthijs> too bad, I was hoping for the dnsnext stuff
[11:07:07] Willem Toorop joins the room
[11:07:08] <Dan York> Hmmm... not seeing slides
[11:07:26] <Paul Wouters> so this is the third ietf where we were promised to discuss charter/new group and we are not doing that
[11:07:28] <Paul Wouters> sigh
[11:07:40] <SM> Paul :-)
[11:07:57] <Tim Wicinski> I know
[11:08:07] <matthijs> Dan: I think it's the same slides as intarea
[11:08:08] <matthijs> http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/89/slides/slides-89-intarea-4.pdf
[11:08:08] <SM> Tim, not your fault
[11:08:10] <Dan York> I'm going to assume this slides http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/89/slides/slides-89-appsawg-1.pdf
[11:08:18] <matthijs> or appsawg :)
[11:08:21] <Dan York> matthijs: Thanks!
[11:08:24] <Tim Wicinski> but it sounds like it will go in real time
[11:08:47] <Andrew Sullivan> I'm sort of annoyed that we are once again seeing presentations in more than one WG session.  
[11:08:56] <Tim Wicinski> http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/89/slides/slides-89-dnsop-19.pdf
[11:09:02] <Andrew Sullivan> I don't mind someone coming and giving a 2 minute teaster to another WG
[11:09:25] <Andrew Sullivan> I _really_ mind this habit some have developed of going and giving the same preso in more than one WG.
[11:09:25] <Tim Wicinski> i agree
[11:09:35] <Tim Wicinski> they were told very short
[11:09:51] <matthijs> Andrew: me too
[11:10:37] <Andrew Sullivan> @Tim: they've already failed, then.  (I'm not complaining to you — I faced this problem too, and it's nearly impossible to prevent people from pulling this stunt)
[11:10:40] <Tim Wicinski> something to learn from
[11:12:14] <Andrew Sullivan> yes, well, having personally learned about people failing to listen to instructions not to give a sales presentation (earlier this week), I am aware of the salubrious effects of lessons
[11:12:22] <Tim Wicinski> complaining is good. because I feel the same way
[11:12:50] <SM> Tim, watching the same presentation several times a week tends to be taxing.
[11:12:51] <matthijs> a teaser might be good, but perhaps not so useful on friday
[11:12:59] <Dan York> Olaf Kolkman at mic
[11:14:28] <Suz (co-chair)> Re: duplicate presentations: we did it for a specific reason with Olafur's work, but in general, it's good to be armed with that feedback
[11:16:41] <Dan York> Slides: http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/89/slides/slides-89-dnsop-8.pdf
[11:17:04] <Tim Wicinski> Olafs comments on operational aspects is spot on
[11:17:22] <Dan York> Suz (co-chair): I think Olaf had a good viewpoint that what is useful from DNSOP is feedback on the *operational* aspects of the new API.
[11:17:28] <matthijs> I understand that some presentations are interesting for multiple wg's. But perhaps I am annoyed (just a bit) now because we spend time on duplicate stuff while we won't have time for other agenda items.
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[11:18:02] <Tim Wicinski> yes matthis, I agree.  and I should of been tougher when slicing the agenda
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[11:18:25] <Suz (co-chair)> Dan: yes
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[11:19:12] <Tim Wicinski> and actually I should of spent more time looking at the *length* of decks and cutting them
[11:19:19] <Tim Wicinski> which I have done in the past
[11:19:22] <matthijs> Tim: I also understand that that is a though job to do :)
[11:19:32] <Dan York> Suz (co-chair): Many (most?) of us had also seen info about the new API on various DNS-related mailing lists.  So... in the full clarity of *hindsight* ... it might have been good to have maybe 1 or 2 slides saying there is a new API, with pointers to the Github repo and to the other longer slides about the API... and then to say that the authors are seeking feedback about the operational aspects.
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[11:19:34] <matthijs> (slicing agenda)
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[11:20:47] <Suz (co-chair)> Dan: yes
[11:20:59] <Dan York> Tim Wicinski and Suz (co-chair): I certainly understand how tough all this is... so I'm NOT criticizing this meeting... just trying to look at what can be learned.
[11:21:31] <Tim Wicinski> I am critical but it is toward me
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[11:23:31] <Tim Wicinski> this is not in the slides i think. I will fix that
[11:23:38] <Dan York> Tim ... do I just need caffeine or are there no slides?
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[11:23:42] <Dan York> Ha
[11:24:27] <Tim Wicinski> http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/89/slides/slides-89-dnsop-20.pdf
[11:25:20] <Dan York> Wes Hardaker is the one speaking
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[11:26:04] <Tim Wicinski> folks - send us your feedback, because my hindsight is 20/20 but sometimes things get lost.
[11:26:18] <Tim Wicinski> and andrew, you should complain to me. we dropped your slot
[11:27:06] <bortzmeyer> dnssec-trigger, the best example of running code on that http://www.nlnetlabs.nl/projects/dnssec-trigger/
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[11:27:32] <Dan York> The roadblock avoidance draft is a good one.
[11:27:36] <Dan York> Glad we adopted it
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[11:29:12] <Dan York> And.... we're done.... see you in Toronto!
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[11:29:25] <jelte.jansen> woohoo
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[11:29:48] <Carsten Strotmann> thank you!
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