IETF
dnsop
dnsop@jabber.ietf.org
Tuesday, November 5, 2013< ^ >
Peter Koch has set the subject to: DNSOP, next meeting IETF88, Vancouver
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[22:14:59] <marka> audio ok on the net
[22:15:18] <marka> both mics
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[22:19:33] <pebersman> are you remote folks hearing the audio tests?
[22:20:14] <SM> The audio is fine
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[22:20:54] <Dan York> I'll be jabber scribing
[22:20:57] <pebersman> tnx!
[22:21:00] <Dan York> Anyone remote?
[22:21:03] <marka> yes
[22:21:13] <Dan York> okay
[22:21:16] Ning Kong joins the room
[22:21:20] Hugo Kobayashi joins the room
[22:21:21] <pebersman> peter koch: agenda
[22:21:26] <Dan York> Please preface anything you want to the mic with "mic:"
[22:21:39] <Dan York> pebersman is a second jabber scribe... so there's two of us here.
[22:21:45] <marka> ok
[22:22:24] <pebersman> slides-88-dnsop-0: slide 3
[22:23:00] Kazuya Okada joins the room
[22:23:10] <Dan York> marka: audio working?
[22:23:14] <marka> yes
[22:23:19] <marka> audio ok
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[22:23:24] <jaap> Sound is fine in Amsetrdam, NL
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[22:23:30] <joel jaeggli> danke
[22:23:34] <pebersman> slide 5
[22:23:46] <Dan York> Wouter Wijingaards at mic (NLNet Labs)
[22:24:01] Olafur Gudmundsson joins the room
[22:24:20] Melinda joins the room
[22:24:28] <matthijs> audio kicks in about a minute later
[22:24:53] <Dan York> Paul Wouters at mic
[22:25:11] yone joins the room
[22:25:18] <Dan York> Warren Kumari at mic
[22:25:35] <jaap> Note that I promised this report in Berlin
[22:25:38] Hugo Salgado joins the room
[22:25:38] <Dan York> Brian Somers at mic
[22:26:01] <Dan York> BTW, we're in the agenda slides at the end - http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/88/slides/slides-88-dnsop-0.pdf
[22:26:04] marco joins the room
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[22:27:22] <Dan York> Daniel Migault at mic
[22:27:22] <Dan York> Warren Kumari at mic
[22:27:43] Hyong Jong Paik joins the room
[22:28:07] Patrik Wallström joins the room
[22:28:49] Hyong Jong Paik leaves the room
[22:28:52] <pebersman> wes hardaker at mic
[22:29:02] <Dan York> Slides: http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/88/slides/slides-88-dnsop-12.pdf
[22:29:04] <pebersman> taking about csync
[22:29:11] Olafur Gudmundsson leaves the room
[22:29:16] <pebersman> slide 4
[22:30:16] <Dan York> Evan Hunt at mic
[22:30:27] <pebersman> evan hunt at mic
[22:30:27] <Dan York> Evan is sort of representing Mark Andrews
[22:30:28] roessler joins the room
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[22:30:56] <Dan York> Wes at mic
[22:30:57] Shinta Sato joins the room
[22:31:03] roessler joins the room
[22:31:12] <Dan York> Olafur presenting http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/88/slides/slides-88-dnsop-1.pdf
[22:31:51] Peter Koch joins the room
[22:32:06] <pebersman> slide
[22:32:06] <pebersman> slide 3
[22:32:29] <pebersman> slide 4
[22:33:17] <Dan York> Evan Hunt at mic
[22:33:19] <pebersman> evan hunt at mic
[22:33:55] <Dan York> Paul Wouters at mic
[22:33:58] g.e.montenegro joins the room
[22:34:00] <marka> mic:  note scrapping is a goog replacement for RFC 5011
[22:34:29] <marka> especially if timers are added
[22:34:43] <marka> get to both drafts
[22:34:53] josephyee joins the room
[22:35:02] <Dan York> Paul Hoffman at mic
[22:35:22] <Dan York> Mark - you want to note that scraping is a good replacement
[22:35:33] <marka> yes w/ timers
[22:36:02] <marka> applicable to both drafts
[22:36:07] Andrew Sullivan joins the room
[22:36:09] <pebersman> jimei tatuya at mic
[22:36:12] <Dan York> Tatuya Jinmei at mic
[22:36:15] <Peter Koch> tnx mark
[22:36:43] <Dan York> in line
[22:37:27] <matthijs> ds and dnskey were difficult with csync
[22:37:30] <matthijs> hence the split
[22:37:43] <matthijs> i thought that was crystal clear from berlin
[22:37:49] <pebersman> dan york at mic
[22:38:24] <pebersman> wes hardaker at mic
[22:38:50] <pebersman> http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/88/slides/slides-88-dnsop-2.pdf
[22:39:00] <Dan York> Slides: http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/88/slides/slides-88-dnsop-2.pdf
[22:39:03] Olafur Gudmundsson joins the room
[22:39:20] Suz joins the room
[22:39:21] <Dan York> Ha! nice job pebersman :-)
[22:39:32] <Dan York> Kazunori Fujiwara presenting
[22:39:48] danny joins the room
[22:40:44] <pebersman> slide 4
[22:44:15] roessler leaves the room
[22:45:50] <marka> mic: counter measure - charge more for unsigned delegation
[22:46:16] <Dan York> Brian Dickson at mic
[22:46:23] <Dan York> marka: in line
[22:46:49] roessler joins the room
[22:47:23] <marka> mic: this is independent of nsec/nsec3
[22:48:25] <Dan York> marka: I like the idea!  There is now a real operational cost for having an unsigned domain... so pass the cost on to the customer. ;-)
[22:48:26] Anton Baskov joins the room
[22:49:02] <Dan York> The way to avoid that cost is simple... sign your domain. :-)
[22:49:52] john.levine leaves the room
[22:50:05] <pebersman> stephane bortzmeyer at mic
[22:50:08] <Dan York> Stephane Bortzmeyer at mic
[22:50:23] <Dan York> .FR is already doing what marka suggested
[22:50:27] <Dan York> Paul Wouters at mic
[22:50:42] <matthijs> sidn did that with its incentive program, dnssec enabled delegations cost less
[22:50:51] <Dan York> Right
[22:50:56] <Dan York> Olafur at mic
[22:52:18] <Dan York> Peter Koch speaking
[22:52:22] <pebersman> joel jaegli at mic
[22:52:24] <Dan York> Joel Jaeggli at mic
[22:52:24] john.levine joins the room
[22:52:40] roessler leaves the room
[22:52:46] <Dan York> Roy Arends at mic
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[22:53:23] <Dan York> Antoin Verschauen at mic
[22:54:05] <pebersman> dan york at mic
[22:54:27] <Ralf Weber> The number is marginal because we don't have much validating resolvers - the problem will increase when we have more validating resolver but less signed zones. Not sure what will come first
[22:55:05] Ning Kong leaves the room
[22:55:35] <Dan York> Haikuo Zhang at mic
[22:55:53] <Dan York> Draft is at http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-fujiwara-dnsop-ds-query-increase-01
[22:56:28] <marka> aside: for dnskey lookup servfail see draft-andrews-dns-no-response-issue which the wg should be addressing at some point
[22:56:32] <pebersman> Antoin Verschauen at mic
[22:56:54] <pebersman> brian dickson at mic
[22:57:08] Ning Kong joins the room
[22:57:58] <pebersman> slide: http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/88/slides/slides-88-dnsop-3.pdf
[22:58:46] <Dan York> Jing Huang presenting
[23:01:03] josephyee leaves the room
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[23:03:06] <pebersman> andrew sullivan
[23:03:07] <marka> mic:  this should be general apps area.  There should be a push to deploy SRV support in applications.
[23:03:08] <pebersman> at mic
[23:03:52] Myung Hee Choi joins the room
[23:04:02] <pebersman> joel jaeggli at mic
[23:05:19] <marka> mic: Microsoft + Google + Mozilla can change this in 3 months if they decide to
[23:05:23] <pebersman> slide: http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/88/slides/slides-88-dnsop-4.pdf
[23:05:30] <pebersman> joe abley speaking
[23:08:10] <Dan York> Geoff Huston at mic
[23:09:20] <Dan York> "DNAME: Even better than perfect."  - new tshirt?
[23:09:54] <pebersman> +1 on t-shirt idea
[23:11:15] <Dan York> Draft: http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-jabley-dnsop-as112-dname-01.txt
[23:11:24] <marka> mic: no
[23:11:45] Jinmei Tatuya joins the room
[23:12:46] <Dan York> Hum ...
[23:12:52] <pebersman> slides: http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/88/slides/slides-88-dnsop-5.pdf
[23:13:04] <pebersman> "" "" speaking :)
[23:13:10] <Dan York> Meant to write "Hum was for draft to be adopted"
[23:14:19] <john.levine> k
[23:16:00] <pebersman> johan i at mic
[23:16:39] <pebersman> (Johan Ihren)
[23:18:16] <Dan York> (mic line forming... :-) )
[23:18:36] <marka> mic:  required global multicast to work universally
[23:18:48] <Dan York> marka: ack ... going in line
[23:19:00] <marka> requires
[23:19:44] <pebersman> Antoin Verschauen at mic
[23:20:40] <marka> mic: dnskeys still have long ttls
[23:20:41] <Andrew Sullivan> I took myself out of the mic line because I didn't have anything to add to Joe's response
[23:21:05] <Dan York> marka: ack
[23:21:18] <marka> even if address have low ttls
[23:21:20] <Andrew Sullivan> but I can't believe that the DNS operations WG is crapping all over a proposal to make the operation of the DNS work better
[23:21:23] <Andrew Sullivan> or rather
[23:21:26] <pebersman> david conrad at mic
[23:21:37] <Andrew Sullivan> a proposal to write requirements for what would make the operation of the DNS work better
[23:21:50] <Dan York> Andrew Sullivan: I *can* relay
[23:22:05] <Andrew Sullivan> Naw.  People can see it here
[23:22:22] <pebersman> joel jaeggli
[23:22:23] <Dan York> :-)
[23:24:53] <pebersman> slide: http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/88/slides/slides-88-dnsop-6.pdf
[23:25:08] <pebersman> paul wouters speaking
[23:25:16] <Peter Koch> not yet ;-)
[23:26:30] <Dan York> Drafts at: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-wouters-edns-tcp-chain-query/
[23:26:37] <Dan York> and: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-wouters-edns-tcp-keepalive/
[23:29:29] <pebersman> andrew sullivan at mic
[23:30:04] <pebersman> joe abley at mic
[23:31:25] <pebersman> dan york at mic
[23:31:45] <pebersman> brian dickson at mic
[23:32:21] <Dan York> Just a comment - anything like this that makes DNS more efficient is a win in my book
[23:32:34] <pebersman> slide: http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/88/slides/slides-88-dnsop-7.pdf
[23:32:46] <pebersman> joel jaeggli as AD
[23:32:47] <Dan York> Joel at mic
[23:33:03] <pebersman> joe abley speaking. again. ;)
[23:33:23] <Dan York> We will skip this draft
[23:33:27] <Dan York> Evan Hunt to present
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[23:34:41] <Dan York> Slides: http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/88/slides/slides-88-dnsop-8.pdf
[23:35:08] <marka> mic: call for adopt for both
[23:36:15] <pebersman> wes hardaker speaking
[23:36:44] <marka> mic:  update parent works without dnssec
[23:37:29] <Dan York> Draft at http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-andrews-dnsop-update-parent-zones-03
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[23:37:37] <Dan York> marka: ack
[23:37:55] g.e.montenegro joins the room
[23:38:21] <marka> mark:  You can do this with one SRV record
[23:38:34] <marka> see latest draft
[23:38:46] <Dan York> marc blanchet at mic
[23:39:04] <marka> mic: update can be relayed by registrar
[23:39:38] <pebersman> paul hoffman at mic
[23:39:54] <marka> s/registrar/registry
[23:40:18] <pebersman> warren kumari on mic
[23:40:40] <pebersman> lee howard on mic
[23:41:16] <marka> mic: what is hard about "username/password"  that is all TSG is
[23:41:41] <pebersman> dan york on mic
[23:43:21] <pebersman> warren kumari on mic
[23:43:54] <Dan York> Antoin at mic
[23:45:06] <pebersman> evan hunt on mic
[23:45:21] <Dan York> marka: Peter cut the line before I could get in to relay
[23:45:32] <matthijs> CDS makes it slightly larger
[23:45:36] <Dan York> Wes responding
[23:45:37] <matthijs> negligible maybe
[23:45:49] <pebersman> joe abley at mic
[23:46:36] keith_nm leaves the room: IETF88, Vancouver
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[23:48:17] <pebersman> dan york at mic
[23:48:17] Anton Baskov leaves the room
[23:48:36] <matthijs> hum for csync
[23:49:05] <matthijs> and a hum for cds
[23:50:25] Patrik Wallström leaves the room
[23:50:29] <matthijs> push mechanism was killed years ago "this will never work" they said in 2009
[23:50:52] <matthijs> cds/cdnskey is purely for dnssec syncing
[23:51:02] roessler leaves the room
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[23:51:18] <matthijs> because csync cannot do some requirements that cds/cdnskey does do
[23:51:31] <matthijs> csync than can be used for a aaaa and ns
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[23:51:58] <SM> :D
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[23:53:08] <Dan York> Paul Wouters at mic
[23:53:10] <pebersman> joe abley asked for requirements doc. shock!
[23:53:18] <matthijs> mic: above if still possible
[23:53:22] <marka> mic:  requirement works with plain zones
[23:53:25] <pebersman> donald eastlake at mic
[23:53:33] <pebersman> reviving dns cookies draft
[23:53:51] <marka> mic: will work with donald on cookies
[23:53:58] <Suz> if we're talking about merging stuff we should probably have an editorial team willing to do that
[23:54:11] Ning Kong leaves the room
[23:54:18] <Dan York> marka: Donald welcomes your help
[23:55:35] <pebersman> stephane bortzmeyer
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[23:55:42] <Dan York> Stephane at mic
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[23:56:12] <Dan York> thanks everyone
[23:56:12] <marka> remind draft-andrews-dns-no-response-issue
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