[08:49:38] jpc joins the room [10:13:04] jabley joins the room [10:32:38] Hugh_Daniel joins the room [10:35:12] naptee joins the room [10:38:24] jpc leaves the room [10:51:07] yone joins the room [10:52:06] pawal joins the room [10:53:02] sm joins the room [10:53:31] wouter joins the room [10:53:31] Peter Koch (co-chair) joins the room [10:53:50] Peter Koch (co-chair) has set the subject to: DNSOP@IETF80: 5mins [10:55:16] Marcos joins the room [10:55:37] Chris Griffiths joins the room [10:55:56] ywang830 joins the room [10:57:48] ray joins the room [10:57:58] jabley leaves the room [10:59:01] rbonica joins the room [10:59:12] Peter K is starting the meeting [10:59:50] sandoche joins the room [10:59:51] jelte joins the room [10:59:54] audio good, yes [10:59:58] Peter loud and clear [11:00:01] works well [11:00:03] shane joins the room [11:00:20] Hello all. Peter drafted me as backup jabber scribe. [11:00:28] scott_rose joins the room [11:00:31] And we've started! [11:01:08] Andrew joins the room [11:01:10] huguei joins the room [11:01:18] huguei leaves the room [11:01:39] liman joins the room [11:01:40] Hugo Salgado joins the room [11:01:52] Agenda being bashed: http://tools.ietf.org/wg/dnsop/agenda?item=agenda80.html [11:03:04] Andrew Sullivan will proxy for Joe Abley's draft "Trust Anchor at Startup" [11:03:09] Suz joins the room [11:03:32] Document Status Update: [11:03:39] koji joins the room [11:03:53] three AS112 drafts sent to the AD [11:04:23] hi guys [11:04:29] Bernie joins the room [11:04:35] weiler joins the room [11:04:52] Name Server Management Requirements in the RFC Editor's Queue [11:04:55] russmundy@jabber.org joins the room [11:05:26] fujiwara joins the room [11:05:57] hi Ron [11:06:12] Jaap Akkerhuis joins the room [11:06:12] DPS Framework - survey arranged at CENTR to see how widely the draft is already being used by ccTLDs [11:06:37] ꈲ joins the room [11:07:13] Response Size draft recently revised [11:07:45] Jacky Yao (Health Yao) joins the room [11:08:00] ggm joins the room [11:08:26] Related drafts: [11:08:46] NSCP - John Dickinson has updated this draft [11:09:09] koch-dnsop-dnssec-operator-change - new draft about changing operators for signed zones [11:09:31] no significant updates on the others [11:10:30] Matthijs Mekking to present on 4641bis [11:10:59] (mic problems) [11:11:04] (resolved) [11:11:25] -05 to -06 [11:11:45] changes to: [11:11:50] alorithm rollover [11:11:52] stand-by keys [11:11:58] non-cooperating operators [11:12:19] very low audio levels [11:12:33] audio is problematic. [11:12:38] <ꈲ> http://wiki.tools.ietf.org/group/wgchairs/wiki/MeetingAV [11:12:41] better? [11:12:50] no. but that might be lag [11:12:51] I can hear it now in the room, at least [11:13:04] much better [11:13:09] thanks [11:13:56] slide 4? [11:14:00] "Stand by Keys" [11:14:15] Slide: "Non cooperative operators" [11:14:32] John Dickinson joins the room [11:14:52] Slide: "Closing Issues" [11:15:39] Chair surveying how many have read the document [11:15:54] Andrew Sullivan at mic [11:15:59] about 15 people read this or the previous version [11:16:25] recommending publication [11:16:30] Olaf at mic [11:17:04] wants doc to remain at "Informational" [11:17:10] notes this is "Version 2" in the title [11:17:59] jpc joins the room [11:18:03] Russ Mundy at mic [11:18:43] about a 25 second lag on audio stream, FYI [11:18:44] wants updated guidance to be published in a timely manner [11:19:04] another call for publication [11:20:08] fdupont joins the room [11:20:14] chairs to push this forward for publication [11:20:29] Andrew Sullivan presenting on jabley-dnsop-validator-bootstrap [11:21:00] audio OK? [11:21:08] slide 1 - Problem Statement [11:21:12] audio good, but can't hear andrew yet; lag. [11:21:21] soft [11:21:34] better [11:21:38] no, soft. [11:21:38] thx [11:21:42] slide 2 - History [11:21:45] he's turning away from the mic, it sounds like [11:22:20] ggm leaves the room [11:23:03] news that people didn't know they needed time sync before DNSSEC will work [11:23:10] slide 3 : Root-Zone TA [11:24:01] slide 4: Observations [11:25:33] Slide 5 - More Observations [11:25:45] Slide 6 - This Proposal [11:25:50] ggm joins the room [11:25:54] scott_rose leaves the room [11:26:25] Slide 7 - continued... [11:26:50] Slide 8 - Questions to the Room / WG [11:27:11] PK asks for comments [11:27:12] if Q's are asked, please relay here -- the lag makes participation in a hummm challenging. [11:27:20] Russ Mundy at mic [11:27:39] "reasonable approch, should be addressed here" [11:28:25] Sam - not sure I can type quickly enough for that - will try [11:28:39] I meant "answer with a humm" type Q's. [11:28:47] [Sam - ack] [11:28:47] sm leaves the room [11:28:54] scott_rose joins the room [11:29:16] Shane Kerr at mic [11:29:26] "problem needs a solution" [11:31:21] Johan Ihren at mic [11:31:26] For mic: this looks like yet another layer of indirection and potentially one with much weaker key management than the root KSK. While bootstrap is an interesting problem, and this is the place to work on it, I don't think this draft is the best starting point. [11:31:38] [ack - will channel] [11:31:44] half-agree with shane, the only real problem is that you can't use dns in whatever solution ppl will have [11:31:48] [Shane - please scribe] [11:31:54] ray: will do [11:32:16] Missed Johan [11:32:28] Olaf Kolkman: almost same answer as what Shane said [11:33:30] Olaf: have not zoomed into lifetime of trust anchors, don't have experience, may be shorter. Shelf problem is there, have to think about time scales. there is implementation, and there *is* a bit of a standardization issue here. [11:33:49] Olaf: there is a little bit of protocol to provide agreement of what you send or what you get [11:34:03] Mark Andrews: I definitely think we need to be looking in this area. [11:34:19] Mark: we don't have a mechanism now for publishing how long a trust anchor should be valid for [11:34:29] Mark: we don't know when you've lost trust. [11:34:41] Andrew: the mechanism here does tell you that [11:35:28] Ray is now reading weiler's comment. [11:35:45] hum coming up [11:35:52] shane clears thoat. [11:35:57] throat even [11:36:22] johani joins the room [11:36:31] what the hums will be: [11:36:35] Q1 is there a problem [11:36:43] Q2 should DNSOP work on it [11:36:58] Q3 if so, should this doc be adopted for it [11:37:22] about 10 people have read draft [11:37:33] Q1 hum [11:37:34] problem: yes, DNSOP: yes; narrowed down enough: yes; this doc: no. [11:38:26] (no hums against IETF doing this work) [11:38:38] Q1: yes, Q2: no idea, Q3: no idea [11:38:47] PK doesn't appear to be following the stated questions [11:38:55] strictly [11:38:57] ray: I'm noticing that. [11:39:49] George - shouldn't we have a better problem statement [11:39:58] last hum didn't show consensus [11:40:14] George Michaelson on "AS112 bis" [11:40:25] If we're going to start judging humm levels we ought to go for more objective measurements of the amount of noise produced... [11:40:45] Slide 1 - "cut to the chase" [11:40:57] Slide 2 - "this is my problem" [11:41:00] <ꈲ> http://wiki.tools.ietf.org/group/wgchairs/wiki/MeetingAV [11:41:02] Slide 3 - "negatives cost more" [11:41:15] Slide 4 - a graph [11:41:39] slide 5 [11:41:40] slide 6 [11:41:48] @johani: did take into account single 'noise' source vs 'background noise' ;-) [11:41:48] "This is my problem" [11:41:59] (george is using "progessive slides") [11:42:07] very hard to describe [11:42:23] Peter: hums are specifically designed to not differentiate between very interested hummers and lots of slightly interested hummers! [11:42:26] now: " A typical day in 2011 " [11:42:34] "One decibel, one vote." [11:43:03] 7.56%of NXDOMAINS for IPv6 PTR ? [11:43:17] slide: "drilling down" [11:43:20] slide: anothe rgraph [11:43:25] "ULA query graph" [11:43:33] draft-ietf-normative-measurements-of-ietf-hum-levels-00.txt… but it won't get published today... [11:43:33] s/graph/growth/ [11:43:47] "scoped address query growth" grpah [11:44:02] "tunnels vs global unicast" [11:44:48] graph: "mapped IPv4 address queries" [11:45:15] graph : 100x "more stupid questions" vs "unicast" reverse IPv6 questions [11:45:15] What slide # is he on? [11:45:21] (can't tell) [11:45:26] What does a Draft look like? [11:45:27] "What does a Draft look like?" [11:45:39] Not aother 'v6 is doomed' pack [11:45:39] "Not another 'V6' is doomed pack" [11:45:48] Input to -00 draft so far" [11:45:50] (I'll stop echoing ray now :) ) [11:46:01] I thought I was echoing you! [11:46:27] hugh: expect a 30+ second audio delay [11:46:48] new slide with the same title [11:47:08] "assign a V6 prefix for AS112" [11:47:31] cary08@jabber.org joins the room [11:48:02] cary08@jabber.org leaves the room [11:48:05] Mark Andrews at the mic [11:48:15] "are we too early to do this?" [11:48:33] The "click"ing was very annoying, but it seems to work. [11:48:36] (Because of LOCAL-ZONES) [11:48:53] Andrew Sullivan at mic [11:49:25] William ?? Sotomayor (sp?) [11:49:30] supporting the draft [11:49:43] He's the author of other AS112 drafts [11:49:58] PK closed the line [11:50:08] 10-ish people read the document. [11:50:20] hum on adoption [11:50:29] (by raised hands) [11:50:36] lots "for", none "against" [11:51:01] Matthijs again on "DNSSEC Key Timing Considerations" [11:52:54] slide: "Major Surgery" [11:53:01] [sorry - got distracted from scribing] [11:53:05] lots of popping in the audio. is he holding a lavlier in front of his mouth? [11:53:10] lavalier. [11:53:18] [holding mic to his mouth, yes] [11:53:24] Yes, he is holding it it there and weebling around. [11:53:48] assuming this is the clip-on style, tell him to hold it under his chin and talk over it. [11:53:49] <10 read key timing draft, 1 person has read Matthijs' draft [11:53:59] he tried that before - it was too quiet for you [11:54:49] Call for reviewers to read both key timing documents. [11:54:54] sandoche leaves the room [11:55:09] (no, I didn't) [11:55:11] I will [11:55:13] (catch the names) [11:55:15] worried about the trend to start -bis docs before the non-bis has even been read [11:55:23] Me either! [11:55:34] (catch the names) [11:55:43] Presumably these should be pounded together. [11:56:21] Jelte: you're officially an IETF old-timer, since you started a statement with "I'm worried" and then talked about process-type stuff. [11:56:24] russmundy@jabber.org leaves the room [11:56:24] Bernie leaves the room [11:56:38] you are the third person to tell me that in the last 12 hours... [11:56:47] PK - one outstanding issue [11:57:01] overlap with other working groups [11:57:14] "MIF" WG [11:57:17] Andrew at mic [11:57:32] "how to detect if you're behind a NAT64" [11:57:55] "other weird DNS proposals in BEHAVE" [11:58:29] AOB? [11:58:38] ray leaves the room [11:58:39] ggm leaves the room [11:58:41] koji leaves the room [11:58:44] We're done. [11:58:49] shane leaves the room [11:58:55] pawal leaves the room [11:58:59] wouter leaves the room [11:59:02] naptee leaves the room [11:59:04] rbonica leaves the room [11:59:20] yone leaves the room [11:59:38] ywang830 leaves the room [11:59:38] John Dickinson leaves the room [11:59:42] Jaap Akkerhuis leaves the room [11:59:54] Andrew leaves the room [11:59:54] fujiwara leaves the room [12:00:18] Jacky Yao (Health Yao) leaves the room [12:00:20] Marcos leaves the room [12:00:24] liman leaves the room [12:00:40] weiler leaves the room [12:00:43] johani leaves the room [12:03:05] Peter Koch (co-chair) leaves the room: Computer went to sleep [12:03:20] Chris Griffiths leaves the room [12:03:23] Hugh_Daniel leaves the room [12:05:09] russmundy@jabber.org joins the room [12:05:43] russmundy@jabber.org leaves the room [12:05:46] ggm joins the room [12:08:59] Jaap Akkerhuis joins the room [12:09:24] Hugo Salgado leaves the room [12:09:25] hsalgado joins the room [12:11:24] jelte leaves the room [12:11:29] hsalgado leaves the room [12:13:31] Jacky Yao (Health Yao) joins the room [12:18:13] jpc leaves the room [12:18:24] ꈲ leaves the room [12:18:37] fdupont leaves the room: Computer went to sleep [12:26:54] Jacky Yao (Health Yao) leaves the room [12:26:54] Andrew joins the room [12:27:10] Chris Griffiths joins the room [12:28:50] Suz leaves the room [12:32:46] scott_rose leaves the room [13:27:17] Jaap Akkerhuis leaves the room [13:29:16] ggm leaves the room [13:57:25] Chris Griffiths leaves the room [15:32:25] Andrew leaves the room [23:31:23] jabley joins the room [23:48:22] jabley leaves the room