[06:38:03] peter koch joins the room [06:39:38] peter koch has set the subject to: DNSOP@IETF78 to start at 07:00 UTC [06:47:13] Doug Barton joins the room [06:48:10] Carsten Strotmann joins the room [06:51:39] sandoche joins the room [06:51:39] geoff joins the room [06:51:47] geoff leaves the room [06:52:07] geoff joins the room [06:52:48] you gonna stay this time geoff? :) [06:53:49] ggm joins the room [06:54:36] Jelte joins the room [06:57:58] Ning KONG joins the room [06:58:52] We're starting soon. [06:58:58] can we confirm Audio quality [06:58:59] yone joins the room [06:59:06] [peter koch] [06:59:13] audio is good [06:59:19] thanks [06:59:35] healthyao2000 joins the room [06:59:42] if ppl want things said into the record, please let me know. [06:59:43] marco joins the room [06:59:44] geoff leaves the room [06:59:47] bje joins the room [06:59:55] RussMundy joins the room [07:00:01] aka joins the room [07:00:08] geoff joins the room [07:00:12] Lori joins the room [07:00:15] [Peter] Administrivia. Stephen Morris co-chairs. [07:00:20] Joseph Gersch joins the room [07:00:52] sean.s.shen joins the room [07:00:59] arifumi joins the room [07:01:14] jinmei joins the room [07:01:19] http://tools.ietf.org/wg/dnsop/agenda?item=agenda78.html [07:01:50] fujiwara joins the room [07:02:10] matthijs joins the room [07:02:19] Larissa Shapiro joins the room [07:02:23] rbonica joins the room [07:02:23] Jim Galvin joins the room [07:03:05] where do I find a reference to that eternal archive format that peter mentioned? :) [07:03:15] pawal joins the room [07:03:38] haruhikonishida joins the room [07:04:27] ywang830 joins the room [07:04:33] wnagele joins the room [07:04:54] sm joins the room [07:05:15] DNSSEC root signing team to give update on signed root status, at end of formal agenda. [07:05:38] the news has been leaked ;) [07:05:51] "I hope it doesn't make it to /, before 11:00" (peter) [07:05:55] Now status updates [07:06:15] 4 docs ready to go. Stephen/Peter sitting writing up [07:06:45] nameserver mgt going to AD as informational [07:06:52] Frederico Neves joins the room [07:07:11] default local zones, as112ops, as112-under-attack dealing with similar stuff, self-reference. ship as bundle to AD [07:07:25] dnssec-dps-framework. at the 01 [07:07:33] 02 in prep [07:07:33] weiler joins the room [07:08:16] review needed by registries, operators. [07:08:38] dnssec-key-timing. [07:09:07] just adopted as WG draft. 00 state. edits coming up. may need to align with 4641bis terminology [07:09:29] dnssec-trust-history. [07:09:41] pawal leaves the room [07:09:47] pawal joins the room [07:09:51] adopted feb/mar. little list feedback [07:10:22] expired drafts. [07:10:36] resolver priming. still preparing 03. WGLC maybe. [07:11:04] matthijs leaves the room [07:11:08] clarify root priming response validation [07:11:22] dnssec-trust-anchor-03.txt expired for some time. get to eds, discuss way forward. [07:11:49] matthijs joins the room [07:11:55] draft-respsize. talked to eds. OBE. amount of EDNS0 is significant. far from 100% [07:12:19] wg may want to go to historic. or still valuable. chairs want lower priority. think valuable, publishable after re-edit [07:12:42] florin coras joins the room [07:12:43] reverse-mapping-considerations.06. [07:12:51] "cant let it die" and "v6 reverse mapping coming up" [07:12:59] seems to be attractive way of service discovery to some people. [07:13:43] stainlesskim joins the room [07:13:50] 3) Active Drafts [07:14:05] Olaf doing operational practices DNSSEC [07:14:42] Alireza Saleh joins the room [07:14:49] no microphone it seems [07:15:02] Olaf is coming over quite silent [07:15:05] I can hear him in Colorado, but it is quieter [07:15:50] he's adjusting [07:16:00] worse [07:16:01] better [07:16:02] any better? [07:16:04] better [07:16:07] much better [07:16:12] better [07:16:21] Chris Griffiths joins the room [07:16:25] better [07:16:29] on slide 2 [07:18:06] Peter cajoling everyone to think about consensus on this work. [07:18:14] now on slide 3. [07:22:24] comments at the mike. missed the name. sorry [07:22:51] antoin verschuren (SIDN) [07:23:21] ogud joins the room [07:23:35] suzanne wolf (ISC) [07:23:37] Elmar joins the room [07:23:38] Suz. support strawman. [07:24:35] joseph.yee joins the room [07:24:51] zhen.tsao joins the room [07:25:06] Ralf Weber joins the room [07:25:09] SUNGUONIAN joins the room [07:25:13] another for strawman [07:25:26] otmar lendl (nic.at) [07:25:26] Andre, support strawman. [07:25:32] ondrey sury (nic.cz) [07:25:51] tore joins the room [07:26:22] Ondrey suggests the NIST doc, Peter points out even a pointer to it requires a decision [07:26:33] Wes Hardeker. like strawman. [07:26:57] Otmar Lendl joins the room [07:27:36] Olaf "send text" comment. [07:27:46] alex mayrhofer (nic.at) [07:29:12] consider validity of operational practices to the domain in question not proscriptive rules based on 'type' (to paraphrase heavily) [07:29:27] ed lewis good to have this doc say things, point to expertise, experiences [07:30:41] Olaf. many operational considerations, crypto specific ones are only part of the problem. [07:31:29] have implemented what I think is the strawman. [07:31:42] 'give me text' if you think I've diverged [07:32:18] now on slide 4 [07:32:24] -the audience [07:32:32] kongyong1 joins the room [07:33:21] publish side, zone contents, management [07:33:41] knowing there is the relying party/client side,. but exploring that provisioning/authoritative side of DNS equation. call out and ask "is this ok" [07:33:59] joseph.yee leaves the room [07:34:54] jelte (isc) [07:35:20] doc long enough. if need other side, (resolver/client) put to other doc [07:36:25] Peter: is the IETF the right venue to make these recommendations. Olaf.. and orthogonal to this document [07:36:36] slide 5. [07:37:28] questioning how to advice/require 5011. [07:38:08] slide 6. [07:38:13] sig validity considerations [07:38:14] bje leaves the room [07:38:19] Joonhyung Lim joins the room [07:39:20] distinct SOA, ksk, A rec lifes. point 4.4.2 addresses. Is this complete enough? new text. want to highlight, and get feedback [07:39:34] slide 7. appendix B. drop? [07:40:05] going to remove from 04 unless strong arguments to retain [07:40:12] jpc joins the room [07:40:26] Wes. [07:40:49] Rare to need this, but, not documented anywhere else [07:40:55] so.. should stay. 3 paras. [07:40:58] why remove? [07:41:36] Ondrej [07:41:51] read AppB. not enough in current state, better removed. 3 para will not tell how to roll [07:42:08] Olafur. AppB not in sync with 4.1 Olaf no, needs improve if keep. Olafur. Drop. for a little document [07:42:33] Peter. Have to go through after WG meeting. take into account. FB on jabber, or make specific proposal to WG [07:42:36] Antoin joins the room [07:42:40] Slide 8 (last) [07:42:51] open issues. mostly addressed in last 3 versions. [07:43:09] tempted to close. this is a 'last call' to review them [07:44:11] will look once again in sprit of FB received. work with Chairs [07:44:45] aim for WGLC before beijing [07:44:50] Ondrej [07:44:58] key alg rollover. how alg go with 5011. [07:45:18] pawal leaves the room [07:45:26] pawal joins the room [07:45:33] mattijs mekking (nlnetlabs) [07:46:37] kongyong1 leaves the room: Replaced by new connection [07:46:38] kongyong1 joins the room [07:46:43] do we need to spell this out in detail? how many will operate 5011 TA? identify issue. [07:46:54] Ondrej but applies to root zone. [07:46:57] Mark Andrews. [07:47:14] kongyong1 leaves the room [07:47:28] kongyong1 joins the room [07:47:48] adding alg, no referent published. [07:48:02] woolf joins the room [07:48:18] Olaf not operational, proto spec problem. MUST lang. read differently. [07:48:29] Mark your interpretation says something we didn't aim to do [07:48:46] Olaf disagree. Op practices follow proto spec. [07:49:41] peter lets not edit at the mike. [07:49:52] discussion suggests more text needed, not in this doc. nobody will read (!) [07:50:12] Mark yes, is relevant to target audience. [07:50:26] joseph.yee joins the room [07:51:50] Peter take discussion to list. [07:51:56] clarification would be good here.  also, what happens when someone is doing 5011, but then decides to transition to a parent? [07:52:15] joe ... for the mic? [07:52:20] yup [07:53:15] this may be relevant for people in .com, after .com finally gets signed [07:53:27] Wolfgang at mike for you Joe [07:54:17] Stephen Morris. [07:54:22] Andrew joins the room [07:54:28] thanks wolfgang [07:54:33] np [07:54:35] wonder how much detail in draft for timings, have key timings draft, maybe need alg timing draft [07:55:27] pawal leaves the room [07:55:33] pawal joins the room [07:55:55] off-mike voices say they see use in the alg stuff [07:56:07] sullivan: dead weight [07:57:44] Peter. [07:57:52] couple of tasks to address. editors to write 04 [07:58:36] Benno Overeinder joins the room [07:59:42] Timelines. [08:00:45] 04, 4weeks review. depending on come-back. review for language [08:02:26] ETMI [08:02:57] Now Matthijs [08:03:09] DNS update child-parent synchronization [08:03:54] matthijs leaves the room [08:03:54] matthijs joins the room [08:04:25] i found another big error in 4641 bis but i'll send it to the list, discussion took long enough :p [08:04:27] outcome from IETF stockholm [08:04:30] how to get DS rec to parent [08:06:52] TSIG authenticated push, could be DS and other stuff, glue, NS across the zonecut [08:07:58] Direct communication between the Registrar and Registry (bypassing the Registrar) does not work in the gTLD world [08:08:17] sorry, first Registrar should be Registrant in the above [08:08:22] satoru.matsushima joins the room [08:08:29] want this said to mike? [08:09:26] Peter: take offline. [08:09:41] ggm, if no one else does, yes ... there are others in the audience better suited [08:09:45] Mark don't see glue issues. [08:11:22] satoru.matsushima leaves the room [08:11:27] Use SIG(0) instead of TSIG on the update !!! [08:11:52] want said? [08:12:13] Ondrej raised EPP. [08:12:29] mawatari joins the room [08:12:38] Joe Abley [08:12:50] problem conflating relationships. [08:13:06] dns side has more people involved, the DNS service op different to registrant, and signer different agin [08:13:13] many people need to know the TSIG key [08:13:54] in large registries by definition direct contact is not permitted [08:14:09] PAF [08:14:15] many more parties involved. [08:14:47] kongyong1 leaves the room: Replaced by new connection [08:16:02] Stephen cutting the queue at the mike [08:16:05] Ed Lewis [08:17:05] [not speaking as scribe] I cannot understand this OBSESSION with in-band. All the time. [08:17:14] I believe this is not a case where DNS in-band management is sensible [08:17:25] I concur [08:17:37] I think the doc authors have misunderstood sensitivities around WHO can request WHAT changes in delegation [08:18:06] matthijs leaves the room [08:18:16] Wolfgang: not talking in current DNS update path. [08:18:22] only where no currernt standard [08:18:31] Arturo Servin joins the room [08:18:38] I don't see the value of handling any of this stuff in-band ... especially since we've been telling people for a long time that, "You will be able to handle your DS records just like you handle your NS records." [08:18:38] these msgs can go anywhere. bootstrap with registrar. can use SIG(0) or TSIG [08:18:52] paf joins the room [08:19:09] Shane Kerr [08:19:18] early slides, reasons why not POLL. [08:19:23] another draft documents POLL style [08:19:42] pawal leaves the room [08:19:49] pawal joins the room [08:20:52] What we need is a protocol to use to update data about a domain/registrant in a registry, potentially done via proxies (registrar, dns operator etc). The data model we have today is epp datamodel, and we have more/other data than DNS-related that is to be updated automatically. [08:21:03] Benno Overeinder leaves the room [08:21:09] Benno Overeinder joins the room [08:21:16] You do *not* want one protocol for updating DS, NS etc and another for other kind of metadata. [08:21:43] The problem is much much more general, the problem must be solved, but using DNS updates is not a solution. [08:21:49] andrew sullivan [08:22:12] Anton, SIDN [08:22:46] paf ... can you elaborate that? [08:22:46] Thank $DEITY that this is not the DNSpolitics working group :) [08:22:52] many comments seem to have missed section in draft about what a PROXY is [08:23:01] You want to be able to: [08:23:04] - register a domain [08:23:08] - Update a telephone number [08:23:14] - update email contact address [08:23:20] - add/change NS [08:23:23] - add/change DS [08:23:23] etc [08:23:38] true [08:24:00] this of course would be limited to dns related data [08:24:10] And you must describe what the trust chain looks like between the two parties that exchange credentials — given the current chain that we have in the epp data model. [08:24:19] however if we blow this out of proportion here we might not get traction at all [08:24:29] you see what happens with this draft towards RRR model here [08:24:48] there is no standard model for this exchange atm [08:24:52] registrant -> registrar [08:25:02] There is already lots of work going on in various places regarding "API [protocol] to use to use non-http protocols when communicating with a registrar" [08:25:04] some registrars offer various webservice apis [08:25:05] Peter. looking to summarize [08:25:22] paf, where is that work going on? have not heard about it, really.. [08:25:25] paf ... could you give pointers to that? would be very curious about it. [08:25:26] Exactly. Most protocls are REST-ful [08:25:33] Not IETF, yet, but it could. [08:25:44] i am fine with rest ... am protocol agnostic there [08:25:50] heard need for comms between zone maintainer, operator, registrar [08:25:51] just want to get to a common standard [08:26:02] not wanting to mess with RRR [08:26:04] wnagle: I completely agree [08:26:18] currently this is a nightmare to implement as a dnssec operator [08:26:44] Peter: does this help authors [08:26:52] wnagle: agree, but we already have the problem with people that want to register domain names, "resellers" (that are not registrars) etc. [08:26:55] Mark suspect need to put examples in [08:27:04] skudou joins the room [08:27:09] yep [08:28:00] Now DNS Server Selection on Multi-Homed Hosts [08:28:04] matthijs joins the room [08:28:06] Teemu Savolainen [08:28:27] this here is really one thing: fix the missing common standard for exchange of dns operational data between registrant (or his operator) and his peer (bein a registrar or anything else) [08:29:05] wnagele, update tsig record ;) [08:29:15] Jacky Yao (Health Yao) joins the room [08:29:16] haha :) [08:29:31] Jacky Yao (Health Yao) leaves the room [08:29:50] SIG0 is not as widely known as it should be ... [08:30:09] healthyao2000 leaves the room [08:30:39] wnagele: I agree, in many situations like these, shared keys are nice [08:31:14] input from BBF, liaison statement, CPE dns proxy, and how to decide what to do [08:31:41] also in the MIF wg [08:31:46] i think i at least heard jabley question the security of this but SIG0 is just fine to solve that [08:32:26] slide 5. solution proposal [08:33:44] slide 6. DHCPv6 option [08:34:04] Benno Overeinder leaves the room [08:34:10] Benno Overeinder joins the room [08:35:11] Slide 7. WG confirm work, other needs [08:35:40] heh [08:35:41] pawal leaves the room [08:35:47] pawal joins the room [08:36:14] Peter .. comments requested [08:36:25] Mark Andrews [08:38:07] Ed Lewis [08:40:09] sandoche leaves the room [08:40:27] sm leaves the room [08:40:40] liman joins the room [08:41:43] bje joins the room [08:41:47] [sorry, didn't get name] [08:44:00] Walter [08:44:07] Ed Lewis again [08:44:40] joseph.yee leaves the room [08:45:34] Elmar leaves the room: I'm happy Miranda IM user. Get it at http://miranda-im.org/. [08:45:55] Peter people following MIF wg? [sevenish] [08:46:00] Danny McPherson [08:46:41] matthijs leaves the room [08:47:07] There is expertise how to solve this in the Enterprise world to look at [08:47:49] matthijs joins the room [08:48:05] Antoin leaves the room: Replaced by new connection [08:48:06] Antoin joins the room [08:48:33] Peter: talk to MIF chairs [08:49:33] Arturo Servin leaves the room [08:49:39] Jinmei: DHCPv6 option. multiple suffixes [08:49:46] how many normally expect? [08:49:55] Teemu: want input. how many do you want? [08:50:12] Arturo Servin joins the room [08:50:22] not sure if want many, scalability issues? [08:51:13] Teemu wanting to avoid too many names with split state. [08:52:16] need liaison statement from BBF [08:52:28] 4191, limitations [08:53:17] Ondrej. need input from ops, support ppl. DSL modem. how to forward to OS. [08:53:24] rely on DNS proxy in CPE? horrid option [08:53:58] Teemu. coming from mobile world. would be phone vendors, or OS vendors taking this into account [08:54:11] Arturo Servin leaves the room [08:54:52] need to look at MH without NAT66, descripe CPE scenarios [08:55:30] Peter. end of WG. no liaison stuff [08:55:49] Otmar on port Randomization. slides not uploaded yet. [08:55:51] will come. [08:56:07] quick update, paper 2 years ago, VU#800113. kaminsky patches [08:56:14] reminder of the problem [08:56:48] scoring resolvers for randomization, simple formula for ports/queries ratio. score 1 is perfect, 0 is same port [08:57:22] initially, few doing randomization. after patch/exploit, saw patching [08:57:37] Arturo Servin joins the room [08:57:41] 2 years later, long tailoff [08:57:49] its a reverse Internet graph: downward to the right. [08:57:59] but going slow to closure [08:58:43] but view by queries, see a lot of unchanged, 'bad' middle-weighted resolvers [08:58:56] and we had so much time!:) [08:59:00] Peter [08:59:05] Now finished AOB. [08:59:09] mike handing over to root signing [08:59:18] pawal leaves the room [08:59:25] pawal joins the room [08:59:34] dnsops finished, so.. this is extra [08:59:47] peter koch leaves the room: Computer went to sleep [09:00:06] haruhikonishida leaves the room [09:00:31] bje leaves the room [09:01:03] paf leaves the room [09:02:13] Matt Larson./Verisign, Joe Abley./ICANN update on DNSSEC. [09:02:16] thanks for the slot [09:02:43] recap on whats been done [09:03:09] keysize, ops split, TA publication, Verisign as signer and ZSK. [09:03:10] Arturo Servin leaves the room [09:03:15] incremental deploy, DURZ [09:03:33] obscured keys to last moment., [09:03:37] deployment status: [we [09:03:43] we're done. [applause] [09:04:42] Arturo Servin joins the room [09:04:57] Jul 15 big day. DURZ running every root since May 5th. [09:05:01] Joe: [09:05:06] accepting DS records during DURZ. [09:05:19] exercise workflow to submit. UK was first I believe. [09:05:29] pawal leaves the room [09:05:31] since then, template, TLD used for name.glue changes now has DS [09:05:35] pawal joins the room [09:05:39] seems to work. e2e [09:05:59] BG, BR, CAT CZ, LK, NA, ORG, ™, UK in the root [09:06:31] KSK side, trusted reps. volunteers, [09:06:55] crpto officers, and recovery key shareholders. none from affiliated. ICANN/Verisign/Commerce [09:09:06] Benno Overeinder leaves the room [09:09:12] Benno Overeinder joins the room [09:10:04] details key processes [09:10:28] TCR roles, the M of N protector of backup KSK private key. [09:10:33] not the key itself. but a protector of it. [09:12:18] Jim Galvin leaves the room [09:13:22] Video being played [09:13:37] the same video is available online [09:13:53] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9j-sfP9GUU [09:14:53] florin coras leaves the room [09:14:57] oops, lost the audio? [09:15:04] its finished [09:15:17] Is anyone in the room speaking? [09:15:22] it's back [09:15:22] no the video was played ... not sure if audio feed from the laptop was there [09:15:23] matt is. [09:16:47] graph of the UDP query rate during transition [09:17:35] data visible at DNS-OARC. long retention [09:18:01] reply data from J [09:18:09] aka leaves the room [09:19:02] are these slides on line anywhere? [09:19:06] pawal leaves the room [09:19:12] pawal joins the room [09:19:16] not sure. will shout out and make sure Matt knows [09:19:22] thanks [09:19:25] TCP query load. neg increase [09:19:42] some unexplained peaks [09:19:52] single /23 in COX comms, caused a TCP surge. [09:20:25] 'normal' TCP increase then seen post event, validation [09:20:57] Matt will post the deck online at project web root-dnssec.org. this pack will be uploaded [09:21:05] sandoche joins the room [09:21:20] abs TCP went to 100 tcp/sec [09:21:23] not a lot in abs numbers [09:21:35] DNSSEC RR types being queries [09:21:51] matthijs leaves the room [09:22:05] background of DS even before capable of being used [09:22:19] some rise from .ARPA being signed [09:22:38] some pre-emptive spikes from probers [09:22:45] matthijs joins the room [09:23:18] Lori leaves the room [09:23:26] Olaf: now week into, the right. seeing increase? [09:24:06] TLD breakdowns. DS fetches for .arpa high [09:24:31] 9% for se [09:24:37] .ORG from 21st! [09:24:44] 4% for CZ [09:24:51] 2% BR [09:24:56] 1 % other/.gov [09:25:04] www.root-dnssec.org [09:25:06] but se is not even in the root [09:25:06] heaps of docs [09:25:13] yet [09:25:14] pawal leaves the room [09:25:21] pawal joins the room [09:25:30] Olaf. [09:25:34] Antoin leaves the room: Replaced by new connection [09:25:37] DURZ. non-validatable. was good idea. [09:25:43] deserves credit. [applause] [09:26:11] Brad at Verisign, involved in design. He pressed this for DURZ/incremental. [09:26:49] Olaf. demonstrated data, showed most major event, happened since DNSSEC. major change introducing something new. didn't see anything happening? [09:26:57] Matt no bad things, no. [09:27:14] Ed Lewis. in all the data collection, any upgrades to root capacity. new nodes. etc. will alter baseline [09:28:08] [09:28:17] you got stats, from all but one. Any reason why that one? [09:28:28] I know its politics, but its an open process. [09:28:47] Benno Overeinder leaves the room [09:28:51] Joe. the roots are independent. all have their own issues. none of us speak for anyone else. over project, everyone did contribute. for L, one missed, admin error. [09:28:53] Benno Overeinder joins the room [09:28:57] others have similar stories [09:29:00] 2nd Q same person [09:29:17] people tried to watch. maybe 10-thumbs, no audio. reason? [09:29:17] weiler leaves the room [09:29:23] Joe/. my fault. [09:29:36] pro video people are doing raw camera stuff. unbroken 7hr stream [09:29:38] zhen.tsao leaves the room [09:29:39] Joonhyung Lim leaves the room [09:29:51] final ceremony on 12th, pub 15th, couldnt get pro's to do it. [09:29:56] will replace in due course with something better [09:30:03] Arturo Servin leaves the room [09:30:15] skudou leaves the room [09:30:25] Ning KONG leaves the room [09:30:35] Jaap [09:30:39] RussMundy leaves the room [09:30:46] lot of people asking, defer to you, to website. don't know. [09:30:56] RussMundy joins the room [09:30:57] the regular Q. why are the HSms only on continental USA. [09:31:01] you might want to say something [09:31:20] Joe. we were given a set of requirements. no secure materials stored outside the USA [09:31:28] stainlesskim leaves the room [09:31:29] requirements from DoC [09:31:39] Matt [09:31:58] Verisign has coop agreement with DoC. operate functions. ICANN has IANA function with DoC. we're both contractors, with legal responsibilities. 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