[10:39:32] niall joins the room [10:40:08] niall leaves the room [10:42:18] Cary joins the room [10:42:34] Cary leaves the room [11:26:24] Jacky Yao (Health Yao) joins the room [11:26:55] Jacky Yao (Health Yao) leaves the room [12:14:34] danny joins the room [12:14:53] danny leaves the room [12:27:58] john.levine joins the room [12:28:03] john.levine leaves the room [12:48:54] niall joins the room [12:54:55] tony.finch joins the room [12:56:02] like the group chat subject [12:58:27] 8-) [13:00:04] wouter joins the room [13:00:27] keith joins the room [13:02:28] cary joins the room [13:03:06] Patrik Halfar joins the room [13:05:05] danny joins the room [13:05:35] Klensin joins the room [13:05:53] Jacky Yao (Health Yao) joins the room [13:05:55] hopefully this is really IETF-80 and not 79 [13:06:30] yes, it is ietf-80 [13:06:52] niall has set the subject to: IETF-80 [13:07:05] paulwouters joins the room [13:08:25] john.levine joins the room [13:09:13] hardie@jabber.psg.com joins the room [13:09:23] Simon Leinen joins the room [13:09:50] rstory joins the room [13:11:25] Patrik Halfar leaves the room [13:11:28] yone joins the room [13:11:33] Patrik Halfar joins the room [13:11:57] Is someone in the physical room acting as jabber scribe? [13:12:09] t.k joins the room [13:12:16] R.E. Sonneveld joins the room [13:12:19] resnick joins the room [13:12:22] t.k leaves the room [13:12:28] Jim Galvin joins the room [13:12:31] t.k joins the room [13:12:32] Olafur WG Chair joins the room [13:12:42] t.k leaves the room [13:12:51] t.k joins the room [13:13:06] matthijs joins the room [13:13:11] Shinta joins the room [13:13:24] If anyone in the jabber room needs things reflected to the mic, please prepend with mic: [13:13:28] fujiwara joins the room [13:13:34] ywang830 joins the room [13:13:50] hsalgado joins the room [13:14:39] Chris Griffiths joins the room [13:14:39] liman joins the room [13:14:56] hsalgado leaves the room [13:14:58] sean.s.shen joins the room [13:15:14] Hugo Salgado joins the room [13:15:16] anyone willing to be the official jabber scribe ? [13:15:40] no jabber scribe yet? I'll volunteer [13:15:44] jelte joins the room [13:15:52] thanks Matthijs [13:15:59] (audio coming through very nicely, BTW :-) [13:16:05] Suzanne is presenting the aliasing draft [13:16:14] sandoche joins the room [13:16:16] "Issues for -02" [13:16:39] yuri joins the room [13:16:50] Simon Perreault joins the room [13:17:12] "Next steps: Things We Need" [13:17:38] does anyone have the slides? [13:18:26] Andrew Newton joins the room [13:19:10] Hugh_Daniel joins the room [13:19:10] "A Proposed (Tentative) Conclusion" [13:19:22] test [13:20:05] http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/80/slides/dnsext-1.pdf [13:20:08] sandoche: test seen. [13:20:35] thanks [13:20:44] g.e.montenegro joins the room [13:21:02] naptee joins the room [13:21:11] scott_rose joins the room [13:22:23] Andrew: "ICANN included session for people to discuss language issues. Trying to get the geeks and the linguists together. Not unsuccesful" [13:23:57] Andrew: "Do we have consensus that this draft describes what we think right now?" [13:25:01] Baker @mic [13:25:06] jpc joins the room [13:25:29] Since anything we were to do in terms of DNS changes would presumably take a decade or two to deploy reliably, what difference does "rest of the year" make. [13:25:43] which page does my mail client open again? [13:26:29] @jeffe" But we all know that everything of interest on the Internet runs over HTTP, right? :-( [13:27:05] arent helpers impossible with dnssec on the phone? [13:27:54] ? at mic [13:28:04] ted hardie [13:28:47] leto: no since the redirection service is on a separate domain [13:29:03] at's an app layer redirect above DNS [13:29:13] *it's [13:29:34] joseph.yee joins the room [13:29:42] Jim Galvin leaves the room [13:29:44] oh i see [13:29:45] screensaver pops up [13:30:12] 12 character password: medium strength :0 [13:30:31] Jim Galvin joins the room [13:31:21] Peter Koch @ mic [13:33:06] mic: complementary application-level problem statement and follow-up is needed -- clearly (?) not within DNSEXT WG -- is anyone (other WG) looking after that? [13:33:51] niall: I think Paul Hoffman will proxy your question soonish [13:33:55] @ted: you are probably correct that we'd be better off with multiple IDN-ish things all pointing to a screech name with data, but that solution has been rejected multiple times. And the best way to do that would be to get IDNs out of the DNS and into something that knows how to do string matching on the server side... which takes us immediately back to that presentation layer [13:33:58] Sorry Ted Hardie [13:34:17] Ted Hardie @ mic now proxying [13:34:24] hehehe [13:34:59] Harald @ Mic [13:35:22] That was "IRI" [13:35:43] Bernie joins the room [13:36:19] niall leaves the room [13:36:35] mwm joins the room [13:36:42] @klensin I think we're likely to get something that comes down to "please install a presentation layer across the internet". And even if we can get the standard protocols to agree on some common set of tools, there's a lot of proprietary systems that won't pick that up. [13:37:19] @klensin So we may have to go with John Levine's "no magic here" response. [13:37:32] Vixie @ mic [13:37:33] @klensin and do what we can. [13:37:54] Benno Overeinder joins the room [13:37:58] But first Andrew with a question for Harald [13:39:07] now Vixie [13:40:12] mwm leaves the room [13:40:21] @ted: "no magic here" is pretty close to the position I've been advocating for some time (and said during the session of this WG on that matter). My someone-negative attitude is also influenced by seeing folks who are asking for changes that are different from what, on close questioning, they actually want... sometimes with the expectation that they will get one change now and come back to the well for a bigger change later. [13:40:28] mwm joins the room [13:41:49] Is Paul talking about CNAME? CNAME is a direcct descentant of host "alias" (or "short") names from the host table. They were definitely permanent. However, they also allowed asking "what are all of the names that can be used for this host". CNAME doesn't, and that becomes part of the problem. [13:41:54] Andrew: how many have read [13:41:58] quite a lot of hands [13:42:20] how many people think it is close: 1 [13:42:38] @resnick Pete, does it strike you that this is easier for protocols like XMPP? Because it seems to me that protocols that expect SRV to find their way actually have less potential pain here? [13:42:45] how many people think it has major defects (things that are deeply wrong): 0 [13:42:59] Add one vote for "deeply wrong" [13:43:04] how many people think there are gaps: about 7 [13:43:48] weiler joins the room [13:43:58] How many people think this should go on hold until icann figures out what they want: 3ish [13:44:03] mcharlesr joins the room [13:44:04] Ted Hardie @mic [13:44:05] @ted: Not clear to me that apps care about this *so long as they get the A record in the end.* [13:44:11] adding the +1 for Klensin [13:44:27] Suzanne comments on Ted [13:44:49] Duane Wessels joins the room [13:45:21] Jaap Akkerhuis @ mic [13:45:38] what a tranquilizing screensaver [13:45:43] Jaap checked the ICANN project on their website [13:45:44] Xiaodong Lee joins the room [13:46:26] niall joins the room [13:47:04] Harald @ mic [13:47:38] Andrew Newton leaves the room [13:48:04] Paul Hoffman @ mic [13:48:09] A large part of the Cyrillic problem, regardless of what some users say, is that once of starts considering the full range of characters that Unicode associates with each one, Greek-Latin-Cyrillic is one script... creating all sorts of interesting problems unless there is a DNS mechanism to prevent FQDNs from containing more than one script (and maybe that isn't enough). [13:48:12] the big question for icann would be, how many variants of .xxx do they want? [13:48:37] 2: .xxx and .com [13:48:38] @ted: MX records and CNAME records (and whatever else this group introduces) are quite the same to applications: They are treated as something to de-reference that gets to "the real thing". [13:49:12] Bernie leaves the room [13:49:16] koji joins the room [13:49:18] ? at mic [13:49:26] thomas narten [13:49:26] Thomas Narten [13:50:19] hta joins the room [13:50:26] Paul Vixie is up next [13:50:45] the blue sheets got bored of the discussion and left. [13:50:49] on the resimprove draft [13:51:34] There are slides (but I can't find them on the meeting materials site) [13:51:41] Resolver Improvements [13:51:45] Where We Are [13:51:47] refresh the materials page, they're there now [13:51:52] thnx [13:52:15] http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/80/slides/dnsext-2.pdf [13:52:44] "Why We're Here" [13:52:49] Andrew joins the room [13:52:53] Suz joins the room [13:53:36] niall leaves the room [13:54:13] wjo joins the room [13:55:25] "Known Arguments" [13:55:28] Re rbldnsd: we're teaching it to do IPv6 BLs, we'll fix it. Re tinydns: I use it, I agree it's a bug [13:57:28] "Unknown Arguments" [13:57:36] @John: Do you want that mic'ed [13:57:37] ? [13:57:49] when convenient, pls [13:58:16] at least the rbldnsd part, people realize the utility of probing in the v6 rDNS/dnsbl space [13:58:33] Bernie joins the room [13:58:33] Pete @ mic (proxying) [13:59:12] mwm leaves the room [13:59:43] =JeffH joins the room [13:59:54] for rbldnsd, yes [14:00:06] original author is still around, he's OK with it [14:00:20] Pete @ mic (proxying #2) [14:00:24] Peter Koch @ mic [14:01:03] Thomas Roessler joins the room [14:01:30] Mark Andrews @ mic [14:01:41] g.e.montenegro leaves the room [14:01:58] g.e.montenegro joins the room [14:02:13] jaap joins the room [14:02:25] Vixie still looking for new arguments [14:02:35] Duane @ mic [14:02:52] for mic: re DNSBLs, mail servers don't query for non-terminals so they will not trigger the bug. There is however a risk of denial od dnsbl service if the mail server shares a cache [14:02:57] niall joins the room [14:04:33] matthijs proxying tony [14:04:36] i will post to the mailing list [14:04:48] ? at mic [14:04:56] phillip hallam baker [14:05:06] (hard to see from the back ;)) [14:05:11] if you think it is necessary. [14:05:24] oh sorry that wasn't directed at me :-) [14:05:28] Peter Koch @ mic [14:06:30] narten joins the room [14:06:41] cary leaves the room [14:06:54] discussion to the mailing list [14:07:49] Olafur is closing the meeting, but first some questions [14:08:01] Olafur: how many read? about 20 [14:08:29] Simon Perreault leaves the room [14:09:00] Jim Galvin leaves the room [14:09:01] Olafur: If this becomes a wg document, it should update 103* [14:09:12] And the meeting is closed, right on time [14:09:12] Patrik Halfar leaves the room [14:09:14] weiler leaves the room [14:09:15] hardie@jabber.psg.com leaves the room [14:09:16] matthijs leaves the room [14:09:20] koji leaves the room [14:09:22] jaap leaves the room [14:09:27] hta leaves the room [14:09:27] Hugo Salgado leaves the room [14:09:28] Andrew leaves the room [14:09:29] tony.finch leaves the room [14:09:35] g.e.montenegro leaves the room [14:09:35] wouter leaves the room [14:09:39] john.levine leaves the room [14:09:46] Suz leaves the room [14:09:59] keith leaves the room [14:10:03] Chris Griffiths leaves the room [14:10:04] joseph.yee leaves the room [14:10:07] yone leaves the room [14:10:12] Olafur WG Chair leaves the room [14:10:40] Jacky Yao (Health Yao) leaves the room [14:10:59] resnick leaves the room [14:11:12] sandoche leaves the room [14:11:17] narten leaves the room [14:11:36] Simon Leinen leaves the room [14:12:19] liman leaves the room: Computer went to sleep [14:12:34] Shinta leaves the room [14:12:39] Duane Wessels leaves the room [14:12:51] scott_rose leaves the room [14:13:00] Thomas Roessler leaves the room [14:13:17] Thomas Roessler joins the room [14:13:28] =JeffH leaves the room [14:14:31] Thomas Roessler leaves the room: Replaced by new connection [14:14:32] Thomas Roessler joins the room [14:14:45] paulwouters leaves the room [14:15:12] Bernie leaves the room [14:15:24] danny leaves the room [14:15:38] jelte leaves the room [14:15:49] naptee leaves the room [14:16:11] mcharlesr leaves the room [14:16:23] niall leaves the room [14:18:11] Thomas Roessler leaves the room [14:19:07] sean.s.shen leaves the room [14:19:48] Benno Overeinder leaves the room [14:20:14] t.k leaves the room [14:20:48] yuri leaves the room [14:21:14] jpc leaves the room [14:21:35] Xiaodong Lee leaves the room: Computer went to sleep [14:21:46] ywang830 leaves the room [14:23:24] sean.s.shen joins the room [14:25:01] Duane Wessels joins the room [14:25:44] Duane Wessels leaves the room [14:31:40] paulwouters joins the room [14:32:37] sean.s.shen leaves the room [14:33:25] sean.s.shen joins the room [14:35:07] Andrew Newton joins the room [14:35:13] Andrew Newton leaves the room [14:37:46] t.k joins the room [14:38:48] liman joins the room [14:38:52] hta joins the room [14:38:59] hta leaves the room [14:39:41] liman leaves the room [14:39:55] t.k leaves the room [14:41:23] t.k joins the room [14:42:30] naptee joins the room [14:43:37] naptee leaves the room [14:43:55] Bernie joins the room [14:47:35] paulwouters leaves the room [14:48:59] R.E. 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