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[07:54:28] <wouter> Hi Mark
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[07:55:37] <marka> can local participants please go invisible as it will help the jabber questions from remote participants
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[08:02:47] <rstory> much better!
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[08:03:22] <mrichardson> marka.... how do you mean go invisible?
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[08:03:34] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Hi, I'm andrew, and I'll be your jabber scribe
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[08:04:07] <Jelte> audio is fine btw
[08:04:07] <ajsaf@jabber.org> starting with agenda:
[08:04:12] <ajsaf@jabber.org> comments on prev. minutes
[08:04:19] <ajsaf@jabber.org> changes to agenda? Nothing
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[08:04:23] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Dcoument status
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[08:04:25] <msj> marka - problem is that I can't do that per-room...
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[08:05:00] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Documents published: LLMNR published as 4795, can be removed from the agendas
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[08:05:05] <marka> have multiple personalities.
[08:05:08] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Olafur: outside working group
[08:05:08] <wouter> that must have been Olafur (audio is fine)
[08:05:10] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Olaf:
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[08:05:23] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Documents advanced
[08:05:35] <ajsaf@jabber.org> NSID is in IANA state
[08:05:55] <ajsaf@jabber.org> AD finalizing write up
[08:06:00] <ajsaf@jabber.org> DNSSEC experiments
[08:06:15] <ajsaf@jabber.org> 2 DISCUSSes on the document
[08:06:25] <ajsaf@jabber.org> edit action, new draft to appear shortly
[08:06:47] <ajsaf@jabber.org> differences should show up within 2 hours (says Olafur)
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[08:07:04] <ajsaf@jabber.org> If you don't approve of changes, please speak quickly
[08:07:17] <ajsaf@jabber.org> New ADs coming, so we want to get this done with current ADs.
[08:07:31] <ajsaf@jabber.org> OPT-IN on way to editor, waiting for experiments
[08:07:55] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Rollover reqs and Trustupdate timers
[08:07:57] --- mattlarson has joined
[08:08:14] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Some explaination from someone?
[08:08:19] --- liman has joined
[08:08:30] <ajsaf@jabber.org> RFC2920bis -- more to come
[08:08:38] <ajsaf@jabber.org> NSEC3 in AD evaluation
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[08:08:57] <msj> from me... Timers is waiting an editing pass from me post last call... 2 comments, none substantive, one doc ref to be corrected...
[08:09:07] <ajsaf@jabber.org> complements from Olaf to WG on fast work on NSEC3
[08:09:12] <ajsaf@jabber.org> thanks msj
[08:09:18] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Last call completed:
[08:09:27] <ajsaf@jabber.org> DSA Keying
[08:09:42] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Diffie-Hellman Keying wiating for AD's queue to clear
[08:10:21] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Transition Mechanisms: Olafur expected publication before this meeting, hasn't happened. Olafur wants explanation in 24 hours
[08:10:50] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Use of RSA/SHA-256 DNSKEY and RSIG killed, but not removed from status page
[08:11:21] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Two zombies. _Will_ happen at next meeting. (Olaf notes it's a hard promise)
[08:11:39] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Now WG documents
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[08:12:02] <ajsaf@jabber.org> DNAME, ECC-KEY, DNSSECbis updates, spoofing
[08:12:05] --- msj has left
[08:12:14] --- msj has joined
[08:12:17] <ajsaf@jabber.org> now we proceed into substantive part of meeting
[08:12:27] <ajsaf@jabber.org> request for questions
[08:12:52] <ajsaf@jabber.org> address msj draft discussion from San Diego meeting. Summary recently posted to mailing list
[08:13:01] <ajsaf@jabber.org> for the records, the WG decided not to adopt the document
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[08:13:52] <ajsaf@jabber.org> DNAME update. Rundown of issues in response to -00 version
[08:14:16] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Resolved issues (1,2,5,6,8,9,11)
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[08:14:29] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Issue 8 is awaiting promised text
[08:14:35] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Currently resolving issues
[08:14:54] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Issue 3: different vendors seem to be doing different things by different middleboxes
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[08:15:54] <ajsaf@jabber.org> New issues
[08:16:16] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Issue 15: Should servers omit synth. CNAME if query signalled DNAME support?
[08:16:34] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Issue 16: NSEC3 existing under DNAME
[08:16:45] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Some corner cases need clarification
[08:16:49] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Olafur asks for support
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[08:17:00] <ajsaf@jabber.org> since no questions
[08:17:05] <ajsaf@jabber.org> do we need a separate signal?
[08:17:21] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Mark Andrews at mic
[08:17:34] <ajsaf@jabber.org> some old DNS servers that know about DNAME
[08:17:58] <ajsaf@jabber.org> anon at mic: is this the excuse for rolling ENDS version?
[08:18:02] <Jelte> there are also non-dnssec resolvers who do set do=1, but they'll probably break anyway
[08:18:06] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Rob Austein at mic
[08:18:42] <ajsaf@jabber.org> just go ahead -- can't define error case you can't test for (is that good paraphrase?)
[08:18:51] <ajsaf@jabber.org> also nit: needs another editorial pass
[08:19:05] <ajsaf@jabber.org> End of comments
[08:19:10] <ajsaf@jabber.org> net up
[08:19:13] <ajsaf@jabber.org> next up, even
[08:19:22] <ajsaf@jabber.org> fordgery resilience
[08:19:41] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Stephane Bortzmeyer for editoes
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[08:20:12] <ajsaf@jabber.org> idea of draft: improve integrity of DNS before deployment of DNSSEC
[08:20:18] <ajsaf@jabber.org> do a better than nothing job
[08:20:25] <ajsaf@jabber.org> idea to address spoofing by guessing
[08:20:41] <ajsaf@jabber.org> some history of draft
[08:21:37] <ajsaf@jabber.org> idea to improve resolvers by using every bit of randomness available
[08:22:00] <ajsaf@jabber.org> some implementations still do not use all the randomness available already in the protocol
[08:22:09] <ajsaf@jabber.org> draft contents
[08:22:25] <ajsaf@jabber.org> describes problem, describes nature of attack, makes recommendations
[08:22:30] <ajsaf@jabber.org> 2 recommendations
[08:22:46] <ajsaf@jabber.org> accept only in-zone answers, and make query parameters less guessable
[08:22:51] <ajsaf@jabber.org> there is an issue tracker on line
[08:23:20] <ajsaf@jabber.org> (URL in slides)
[08:23:29] <ajsaf@jabber.org> request to move to WGLC immediately
[08:23:38] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Peter Koch unhappy with the document
[08:23:44] <ajsaf@jabber.org> weak on terminology
[08:23:48] <ajsaf@jabber.org> need for improvement
[08:24:02] <ajsaf@jabber.org> more importantly, leaves out operational considerations
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[08:24:32] <ajsaf@jabber.org> for example, could source queries from the echo or timeofday port
[08:24:44] <weiler> can't hear the speaker....
[08:24:53] <weiler> use the microphones, please....
[08:25:00] <ajsaf@jabber.org> (Stephane replies that actual ports below 1024 not available on UNIX)
[08:25:12] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Koch: this stuff needs to be in there
[08:25:39] <ajsaf@jabber.org> look at port number distribution at some real (large) name servers
[08:25:59] <ajsaf@jabber.org> worry that cure is worse than disease. (Firewalls need consideration, for example)
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[08:26:49] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Stephane asks Roy Arends about birthday paradox
[08:27:04] <ajsaf@jabber.org> oh, wait, that was not Stephane
[08:27:08] <ajsaf@jabber.org> (please use mic!)
[08:27:13] <ajsaf@jabber.org> (please announce name!)
[08:27:40] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Chairs encourage text to mailing list
[08:28:11] <ajsaf@jabber.org> [scribe missed name]: question whether there is a possibility of overwhelming mapping tables, &c
[08:28:24] <ajsaf@jabber.org> (special case of what Peter Koch said?)
[08:28:34] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Bill Manning
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[08:28:48] <Jelte> i don't think the document should mention the possible NAT problem
[08:29:08] <ajsaf@jabber.org> noting that changing resolver code is not going to go any faster than deploying DNSSEC
[08:29:26] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Mark Andrews: it's not changing the protocol
[08:29:34] <ajsaf@jabber.org> everything already in the protocol
[08:29:49] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Olafur: no hats
[08:30:03] <weiler> is olafur using a mic?
[08:30:06] <ajsaf@jabber.org> this approach to the advantage of DNSSEC
[08:30:13] <ajsaf@jabber.org> yes, he was
[08:30:15] <ajsaf@jabber.org> the mic is funny
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[08:30:40] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Mark Andrews: don't worry about every implementation that can't meet every element
[08:30:43] <ajsaf@jabber.org> but generally good idea
[08:30:49] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Olafur w/ chair hat
[08:30:54] <ajsaf@jabber.org> can we finish this summer?
[08:30:59] <ajsaf@jabber.org> ask for volunteers
[08:31:20] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Larson, Roiy, Scott, Stephane, Koch. . .
[08:31:25] <ajsaf@jabber.org> (Any others not heard)
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[08:31:48] <ajsaf@jabber.org> request to talk to chairs if you will propose text
[08:32:02] <ajsaf@jabber.org> to address issues
[08:32:07] <ajsaf@jabber.org> End of item
[08:32:18] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Next item:
[08:32:26] <ajsaf@jabber.org> DNSSECbis Updates
[08:32:33] <ajsaf@jabber.org> (Olaf talking)
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[08:32:47] <ajsaf@jabber.org> clarifies things about DNSSECbis implementations
[08:33:02] <ajsaf@jabber.org> issue discovered in one implementation
[08:33:35] <ajsaf@jabber.org> because of canonicalisation in RDATA in some cases
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[08:33:39] <ajsaf@jabber.org> not interoperable
[08:33:42] <mattlarson> NSEC3 does not have domain names in its RDATA
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[08:33:49] <mattlarson> so not applicable to NSEC3
[08:34:09] <ajsaf@jabber.org> RFC 4034 consulted
[08:34:33] <ajsaf@jabber.org> turns out that 4034 required canonical form
[08:34:40] <ajsaf@jabber.org> bug strictly in other implementation
[08:34:50] <ajsaf@jabber.org> question to list: bug in specification or in code?
[08:35:05] <ajsaf@jabber.org> request for guidance from list
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[08:35:43] <ajsaf@jabber.org> co-chair asked to judge consensus, because Olaf is involved with one implementation
[08:35:52] <ajsaf@jabber.org> request to mic for guidance
[08:35:57] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Roy Arends:
[08:36:05] <ajsaf@jabber.org> take least resistance
[08:36:21] <ajsaf@jabber.org> most-used signer out there does the downcasing
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[08:36:32] <ajsaf@jabber.org> will be costly to change the code
[08:36:36] <weiler> does NOT do the downcasing....
[08:36:50] <ajsaf@jabber.org> oops, sorry. Pesky "nots"
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[08:36:56] <ajsaf@jabber.org> what Sam said
[08:37:29] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Arends: NSEC and RRSIG should be removed from the DNSSECbis for downcasing
[08:37:56] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Rob Austein: speaking as someone from ISC and speaking as editor of DNSSECbis docs
[08:38:04] <weiler> SPEAK UP
[08:38:11] <ajsaf@jabber.org> he thinks that this was just a cut and paste error -- just a mistake
[08:38:26] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Olaf: speaking as implementor
[08:38:36] <Jelte> is there a chance that NSEC was added because the ownername has to be downcased too?
[08:38:56] <mattlarson> remove it too
[08:39:15] <weiler> NO. see 3755. this was an editting error
[08:39:16] <ajsaf@jabber.org> temporary new scribe, joe abley
[08:39:19] <ajsaf@jabber.org> andrew sullivan to the mike
[08:39:46] <ajsaf@jabber.org> marka: in terms of the presentation, what you put into the record doesn't really matter
[08:39:50] <ajsaf@jabber.org> when you construct the sig
[08:39:54] <ajsaf@jabber.org> we know how to generate signatures correctly
[08:40:23] <ajsaf@jabber.org> olaf: for validation and for creation of signatures, you use the lower-case owner name
[08:40:34] <ajsaf@jabber.org> marka: we don't take signatures over signatures at the moment
[08:40:40] <ajsaf@jabber.org> marka: so this is an orthogonal question
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[08:40:44] <ajsaf@jabber.org> olaf: I think we should take this to the list
[08:41:01] <ajsaf@jabber.org> there is language in the document that says what you have to include in the material over which you make a signature which includes the owner name and the name of the signing key
[08:41:14] <ajsaf@jabber.org> and the specifications as far as I remember specifically say to lower-case those before making the signature
[08:41:16] <ajsaf@jabber.org> but let's double-check and make sure
[08:41:20] <Jelte> they do
[08:41:25] <ajsaf@jabber.org> marka: but that itself is different from taking a signature of a signature
[08:41:45] <ajsaf@jabber.org> olaf: I now understand which corner case you're getting at, marka
[08:41:48] <ajsaf@jabber.org> so yes, rrsig also from that list
[08:41:53] <ajsaf@jabber.org> andrew sullivan: question from jabber
[08:41:59] <ajsaf@jabber.org> was this the result of the owner name downcasing?
[08:42:06] <ajsaf@jabber.org> olafur: this was the target name downcasing
[08:42:15] <ajsaf@jabber.org> "the answer is no"
[08:42:22] <ajsaf@jabber.org> andrew returning to act as scribe
[08:42:27] <ajsaf@jabber.org> much rejoicing, etc
[08:42:31] <Jelte> thanks andrew
[08:42:33] <mrichardson> so, after we fix the spec, there will be resolvers out there that will downcase before checking, and they will fail?
[08:42:43] <ajsaf@jabber.org> now request for hum
[08:42:46] <ajsaf@jabber.org> question
[08:43:12] <ajsaf@jabber.org> in favour of resolution to remove downcasing?
[08:43:24] <ajsaf@jabber.org> strong hum for yes, naught for no
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[08:43:37] <ajsaf@jabber.org> RRSIG question to be taken up separately on the list
[08:43:45] <ajsaf@jabber.org> 2929bis
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[08:43:56] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Experiment lessons
[08:44:28] <ajsaf@jabber.org> First, process should be run by IANA
[08:45:23] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Next, had problems with nonresponsive experts and chairs. Need multiple experts to each template
[08:45:46] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Document needs to state the obvious in some cases
[08:46:28] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Corner case: if template is rejected due to insufficient information, does a new template need submission or not?
[08:46:49] --- koji has left
[08:47:01] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Olafur says "update template"
[08:47:08] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Donald Eastlake objects
[08:47:18] <ajsaf@jabber.org> binary condition: accepted or rejected
[08:47:25] <ajsaf@jabber.org> in every case, always two weeks for review
[08:47:30] <ajsaf@jabber.org> then increased to three weeks
[08:47:53] <ajsaf@jabber.org> new submission should be subject to same three week time to review
[08:48:15] <ajsaf@jabber.org> if the problem is so minor that the review needn't be halted, why is resubmission necessary at all?
[08:48:34] <ajsaf@jabber.org> So in this case
[08:49:01] <ajsaf@jabber.org> took too long, chairs fault
[08:49:30] <ajsaf@jabber.org> expert appointed (Ed Lewis), but there was a complaint on grounds of conflict of interest (Olafur rejected complaint)
[08:49:42] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Process was not smooth
[08:50:01] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Plan to make changes to the document as a result of this experiment
[08:50:12] <ajsaf@jabber.org> may have to go back to IETF or WG LC
[08:50:17] <ajsaf@jabber.org> (maybe not)
[08:50:26] <ajsaf@jabber.org> to be worked out
[08:50:37] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Peter Koch to add one comment
[08:50:46] <ajsaf@jabber.org> no discussion of recordtype
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[08:51:13] <ajsaf@jabber.org> but might be disagreement whether an application could be applicable under the draft
[08:51:42] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Olafur: issue here -- new rrtypes have two paths to registration
[08:51:54] <ajsaf@jabber.org> one is usual IETF process
[08:52:08] <ajsaf@jabber.org> second is binary blob with just template approach
[08:52:25] <ajsaf@jabber.org> current template does not distinguish between new types that have a name inside and that do not
[08:52:35] <ajsaf@jabber.org> could be a relevant consideration
[08:52:48] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Koch: came up in experiment, which is part of the process
[08:52:57] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Olafur: can stll send IETF last call comment on this
[08:53:02] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Next item
[08:53:05] <weiler> 2929bis isn't even in ietf LC (yet)
[08:53:16] <Jelte> i'd say there are more ways to incorporate data that causes new queries besided dnames in the rdata
[08:53:26] <Jelte> s/besided/besides/
[08:53:28] <ajsaf@jabber.org> open mic on future of dnsext
[08:53:57] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Olaf: question is how active the WG should remain
[08:54:05] <ajsaf@jabber.org> housekeeping items that need handling
[08:54:25] <ajsaf@jabber.org> except for RFC list to be pursued on standards track
[08:54:41] <ajsaf@jabber.org> s/pursued/progressed
[08:54:55] <ajsaf@jabber.org> could be new work is coming to group
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[08:55:09] <ajsaf@jabber.org> sometimes on list, bursts of wild ideas
[08:55:30] <ajsaf@jabber.org> requests for i-d with new requirements never results in actual requirements drafts
[08:55:38] <ajsaf@jabber.org> WG is not doing work
[08:55:49] <ajsaf@jabber.org> so suggestion is to clean up work
[08:56:00] <ajsaf@jabber.org> and revise charter to drop other work, which makes it empty
[08:56:11] <ajsaf@jabber.org> most of charter accomplished
[08:56:18] <ajsaf@jabber.org> 38 RFCs done
[08:56:24] <ajsaf@jabber.org> 7 @ IESG
[08:56:29] <ajsaf@jabber.org> 2 zomboes
[08:56:35] <ajsaf@jabber.org> 2 ready to go
[08:56:43] <ajsaf@jabber.org> 4 docs still in WG
[08:56:45] <ajsaf@jabber.org> total of 53
[08:56:50] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Olaf not asking for new work
[08:57:00] <ajsaf@jabber.org> but question is whether to take the group dormant
[08:57:10] <ajsaf@jabber.org> ?
[08:57:26] <ajsaf@jabber.org> (laughter about accidental dormitory joke)
[08:57:42] <ajsaf@jabber.org> list can remain anyway
[08:58:00] <ajsaf@jabber.org> for discussion of implementation &c
[08:58:04] <ajsaf@jabber.org> and expert review
[08:58:08] <ajsaf@jabber.org> advice
[08:58:30] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Rob Austein speaking as chair of last DNS WG that closed down
[08:58:46] <ajsaf@jabber.org> which immediately caused another DNS WG to be rechartered
[08:59:24] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Internet Area does not have a mechanism to get "small docs" through
[08:59:36] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Mark Townsley (AD)
[08:59:50] <ajsaf@jabber.org> precendent for sleeping working group
[08:59:58] <jabley> example given was ppp
[08:59:59] <ajsaf@jabber.org> PPP
[09:00:06] <ajsaf@jabber.org> hasn't met in years
[09:00:10] <ajsaf@jabber.org> there is a chair
[09:00:19] <ajsaf@jabber.org> "defend and review"
[09:00:25] <ajsaf@jabber.org> but act as WG without a meeting
[09:00:40] <ajsaf@jabber.org> important to have a home without going to INTAREA
[09:00:43] <Jelte> dormant with one eye open?
[09:01:06] <weiler> perhaps like an alligator, with our jaws open, also?
[09:01:17] <jabley> jelte: I think that is the idea, yes
[09:01:22] <ajsaf@jabber.org> are these questions for mic?
[09:01:27] <jabley> to reawaken after the long cold winter of dnssec deployment? :-)
[09:01:39] <Jelte> might be necessary to be somewhat active on the bad ideas in other groups stuff
[09:01:40] <ajsaf@jabber.org> scribe didn't understand Rob's question
[09:01:53] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Ed
[09:01:58] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Lewis
[09:02:08] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Some things not completed, but no new engineering going on
[09:02:14] <ajsaf@jabber.org> errors not in protocols
[09:02:20] <ajsaf@jabber.org> but in cut and paste errors &c
[09:02:30] <ajsaf@jabber.org> DNS protocol perhaps doesn't want to be extended
[09:02:54] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Can demands be met by the protocol that there is today
[09:03:09] <ajsaf@jabber.org> with extensions, without breaking what's there?
[09:03:15] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Other thing is process stuff
[09:03:34] <ajsaf@jabber.org> in 10 years only one or two items went from proposed to draft standard
[09:03:59] <ajsaf@jabber.org> one of them is a zombie, like that because of bureaucracy
[09:04:14] <ajsaf@jabber.org> (according to Olafur)
[09:04:27] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Ed again: without WG, bureaucratic needs likely not served
[09:04:29] <mrichardson> I agree that we must have dnsext around to push things to DS and FS.
[09:04:35] <Jelte> is there a precedent on sleeping working groups and algorithm additions (one eye to the zombie SHA256 draft)?
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[09:04:59] <wouter> Closing dnsext may signal that DNSSEC is complete and ready for deployment.
[09:05:00] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Joe Abley notes comments from jabber room
[09:05:34] <ajsaf@jabber.org> that sleeping group could help defend against bad ideas
[09:05:40] <mrichardson> advancing dnssec to DS would also signal that DNSSEC is complete.
[09:05:44] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Ed Lewis: what about DNS Directorate?
[09:05:53] <ajsaf@jabber.org> wouter, mrichardson: for mic?
[09:06:00] <mrichardson> wouter not in room.
[09:06:04] <mrichardson> I will grab mic.
[09:06:09] <wouter> sure
[09:06:16] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Mark Townsley
[09:06:30] <ajsaf@jabber.org> DNS Directorate doesn't have "wack a mole" job yet
[09:06:30] <cmurph> townsley
[09:06:44] <cmurph> sorry, wrong window
[09:07:19] <ajsaf@jabber.org> may be nicer to have WG with limited charter to advance drafts
[09:07:35] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Olafur: question: hurdle to wake dormant group?
[09:07:40] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Mark T: recharter
[09:07:49] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Olaf: that is recharter with significant new work
[09:07:55] <ajsaf@jabber.org> no big difference than today
[09:08:06] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Mark T: yes. Normal process
[09:08:20] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Not advocating this for every case
[09:08:28] <ajsaf@jabber.org> DNS not everything in the world
[09:08:42] --- gberezow@jabber.org has left
[09:08:43] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Michel Richardson in favour, also speaking for jabber room
[09:08:58] <ajsaf@jabber.org> s/Michel/Michael
[09:09:08] <ajsaf@jabber.org> the work could happen as the group is in hibernation
[09:09:22] <ajsaf@jabber.org> within WG context, the advancement work could be done
[09:09:27] <ajsaf@jabber.org> but the work is non-trivial
[09:09:50] <ajsaf@jabber.org> (last comment was Olaf. From "the work could happen. . .")
[09:09:53] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Bill Manning:
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[09:10:06] <ajsaf@jabber.org> last group to deal with extensions to DNS
[09:10:21] <ajsaf@jabber.org> put it out of misery
[09:10:31] <ajsaf@jabber.org> If someone needs to fend off bad DNS ideas
[09:10:48] <ajsaf@jabber.org> let's set up a group for shepherding DNS
[09:11:02] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Olaf: rechartering still needs doing
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[09:11:36] <ajsaf@jabber.org> and whether renaming as " dnspol[ice]" or "dnsshepherd" doesn't seem to matter
[09:11:39] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Ed Lewis?
[09:11:42] <ajsaf@jabber.org> next?
[09:11:48] <ajsaf@jabber.org> big noise: "we're done"
[09:11:52] <ajsaf@jabber.org> that's a big thing to say
[09:11:59] <ajsaf@jabber.org> on other hand, bureaucratic stuff
[09:12:12] <Jelte> if the group should be renamed when it only handles possible issues from other protocols that use dns, it should be dns-resolve :p
[09:12:37] <ajsaf@jabber.org> when we chartered, talked about new work, and also added moving forward standards as "also, while we're alive"
[09:12:45] <ajsaf@jabber.org> not an excuse to stay alive
[09:12:54] <ajsaf@jabber.org> doesn't really care about advancing standards
[09:13:08] <ajsaf@jabber.org> jelte: hahaha :)
[09:13:36] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Olaf: not a working group if it does no work
[09:13:48] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Ed: not beating people to move standards up
[09:13:51] <ajsaf@jabber.org> do people care?
[09:13:56] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Rob Austein
[09:14:11] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Leaning towards solution Mark Townsley proposed
[09:14:49] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Would not have wanted to charter whole WG to get a small draft handled
[09:15:20] <ajsaf@jabber.org> if needed recharter for any work to be done, could be bad thing
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[09:15:50] <ajsaf@jabber.org> also, advantage of having dormant WG is that the mailing list should remain under IETF rules
[09:15:55] <ajsaf@jabber.org> which could be a good idea
[09:15:57] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Steve Crocker
[09:16:09] <ajsaf@jabber.org> discussion about how docs progress on standards track
[09:16:17] <ajsaf@jabber.org> it's a generic question in the IETF
[09:16:22] <ajsaf@jabber.org> not just issue in this group
[09:16:44] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Mike St Johns
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[09:16:54] <ajsaf@jabber.org> this group has been doing changes to base protocol
[09:17:04] <ajsaf@jabber.org> different from additions, use of DNS, &c.
[09:17:34] <ajsaf@jabber.org> the expertise comes from this group
[09:17:43] <ajsaf@jabber.org> need to have that source of expertise
[09:17:48] <ajsaf@jabber.org> closing mic
[09:17:59] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Harald Alvestrand (sp?)
[09:18:09] <ajsaf@jabber.org> you can have non-WG mailing lists now
[09:18:30] <ajsaf@jabber.org> so no need of WG to solve IETF control
[09:18:35] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Ed Lewis:
[09:18:41] <ajsaf@jabber.org> example of provreg
[09:18:45] <ajsaf@jabber.org> group not required
[09:18:50] <ajsaf@jabber.org> ML stayed around
[09:19:02] <ajsaf@jabber.org> energy to get the drafts moved along
[09:19:07] <ajsaf@jabber.org> because editor pushed for it
[09:19:09] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Olaf
[09:19:18] <ajsaf@jabber.org> feeling from the room is that hibernation is a good option
[09:19:43] <ajsaf@jabber.org> proposing to lift some language from PPP charter and write a charter to go to sleep
[09:19:49] <ajsaf@jabber.org> any other business?
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[09:20:20] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Note that this is not the first time the meeting hasn't run out of time (also a sign of incipient death)
[09:20:31] <ajsaf@jabber.org> because there is time
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[09:20:54] <ajsaf@jabber.org> a presentation on DNSSEC Deployment, roadmap version 2.0
[09:21:01] --- yone has joined
[09:21:02] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Steve Crocker presenting
[09:21:09] <Jelte> are there slides online?
[09:21:21] <tsavo_work@jabber.org/Meebo> yes
[09:21:26] <wouter> http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/07mar/slides/dnsext-3.ppt
[09:21:36] <ajsaf@jabber.org> thanks!
[09:21:38] <Jelte> thnx
[09:22:02] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Have a group funded by US Dept of Homeland Security
[09:22:06] <ajsaf@jabber.org> roadmap 2 years ago
[09:22:11] <ajsaf@jabber.org> new update
[09:22:22] <ajsaf@jabber.org> roadmap on website
[09:22:27] <jabley> slide "Noteworthy Changes"
[09:22:27] <ajsaf@jabber.org> noteworthy changes
[09:22:34] <ajsaf@jabber.org> software inventory
[09:22:38] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Issues and gaps
[09:22:43] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Outrerach program
[09:22:56] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Recognition of work in other parts of the world
[09:23:24] <ajsaf@jabber.org> notes launch of commercial DNSSEC deployment in Sweden, other developments in ccTLD world
[09:23:35] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Tools inventory
[09:23:48] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Trying to keep list up to date on website
[09:23:54] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Some issues
[09:24:10] <ajsaf@jabber.org> older issues (listed in slides)
[09:24:20] <ajsaf@jabber.org> new issues also in slides
[09:24:34] <ajsaf@jabber.org> new issues didn't get full attention first time
[09:25:13] <ajsaf@jabber.org> The deployment working group intended to be parallel to technical work at IETF
[09:25:22] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Website offers newsletter
[09:25:38] <ajsaf@jabber.org> and four-minute animation
[09:25:58] <ajsaf@jabber.org> goal to make website www.dnssec-deployment.org to be useful for community
[09:26:26] <ajsaf@jabber.org> attempt to use site to help adopters
[09:26:32] <ajsaf@jabber.org> whose parents are not signed
[09:26:39] <ajsaf@jabber.org> FIN
[09:26:45] <ajsaf@jabber.org> Olafur
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[09:26:49] <ajsaf@jabber.org> closing remarks
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[09:27:15] <ajsaf@jabber.org> look to mailing list in near future for updates
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[09:27:19] <ajsaf@jabber.org> concludes meeting
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[09:27:31] <Jelte> thanks scribe an mic-proxies
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[09:27:44] <wouter> thanks michael :)
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