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[13:58:54] <ag2> yes
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[13:59:07] <mellon> Oh, this is exciting. Jabber works!
[13:59:09] <Olaf (Co-chair)> An you are not physically with us AG2?
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[13:59:18] <Simon Josefsson> is anyone getting audio?
[13:59:22] <ag2> i'm in far off maryland
[13:59:27] * marka has set the topic to: dnsext March 21 2006
[13:59:30] <Olaf (Co-chair)> Good.. AG2 gets audio
[13:59:35] <Olaf (Co-chair)> Welcome all
[13:59:40] <Olaf (Co-chair)> We have not started yet
[13:59:51] <Jelte Jansen> can someone speak in the mic?
[14:00:00] <ag2> ... and good quality audio, too (not like ch 6)
[14:00:10] <Simon Josefsson> I don't hear anything
[14:00:18] <Jelte Jansen> yes
[14:00:23] <Jelte Jansen> i hear you olaf
[14:00:26] <Olaf (Co-chair)> Did you now Simon.
[14:00:29] <Simon Josefsson> i hear you too, great!
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[14:00:57] <Olaf (Co-chair)> Co-chair is about to bring up the agenda..
[14:01:11] <mellon> So what was the jabber scribe plan again?
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[14:03:30] <robertml> Sound for me is crappy. Maybe it's the noise reduction kicking in.
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[14:04:02] <Jelte Jansen> i have sound but there's a loud hum interfering
[14:04:14] <Olaf (Co-chair)> for the jabber
[14:04:24] <msj> that's all the talking
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[14:04:55] <marka> adminstriciva
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[14:05:11] <robertml> Sound is good now.
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[14:05:38] <marka> htttp://tools.ietf.org/wg/dnsext
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[14:06:14] <marka> scribe: david hankins
[14:06:45] <marka> agenda bashing
[14:06:56] --- jakob has joined
[14:07:03] <marka> Doc status ...
[14:07:03] --- weiler has joined
[14:07:34] <marka> Case insensitive -> RFC4343
[14:08:27] <marka> CERT RR AUTH48 issue, sec related. proposed change on mailing list. timeout for comments today. default to proceed.
[14:09:55] <marka> DS SHA-256 in rfc editors queue.
[14:09:56] --- pawal has joined
[14:10:36] <marka> Wildcard clarify have IESG issues. new draft submitted then to RFC Ed.
[14:11:10] <marka> DHCID awainting IESG approval. done real soon now
[14:11:28] <marka> NSID awaiting IETF last call
[14:11:50] <marka> LLMNR Request as Informal
[14:12:18] <marka> Insufficient feedback to determine consensus
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[14:14:22] <marka> Quorum review requirements for DSA Key signing needed
[14:14:36] --- dthaler has joined
[14:14:38] <marka> similarly for Diffie Hellman
[14:15:50] --- dblacka has left
[14:16:24] <robertml> I think the working group may not be crypto experts and are afraid of DSA and DH
[14:16:48] <marka> call for reviews that are not the usual susspects
[14:16:52] <scottr> The drafts really don't cover the crypo parts
[14:17:41] <robertml> Oh.
[14:17:56] <Jelte Jansen> i can take a look at either one
[14:18:00] <marka> last call closing on DNSSEC Experiments and Evaluating DNSSEC transition mechaninsm (awaiting new rev)
[14:18:11] <weiler> and opt in.
[14:18:19] <weiler> trans mech is not in last call yet
[14:18:40] --- ggm has joined
[14:18:49] <marka> Elliptic Curve Keys Olufur talking to crypto people
[14:18:56] <weiler> Donald Eastlake just admitted that PHB has his cell phone number.
[14:18:59] --- Suz has joined
[14:19:21] <Jelte Jansen> sound is regressing a bit by the way
[14:19:21] <marka> PHB says more work required via Don Eastlake
[14:20:50] <marka> definitely needs more reviewers before sending to IESG
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[14:21:41] <marka> Eliptic Curve are smaller. Sign cheap, verification is more expensive.
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[14:22:12] <weiler> ecc: it's a witch.
[14:22:20] <marka> Ongoing ...
[14:22:39] <marka> DNSSECbis updates
[14:22:47] <marka> IANA updates
[14:23:16] <weiler> Ben Laurie implicitly admits to not paying attention.
[14:23:18] <marka> Neg answer requirements (need to be reved)
[14:24:07] <marka> DNSSEC Hash Authenticated Denial of Existance. Workshop before Montreal.
[14:24:23] <marka> RSA/SHA256 Algorithm
[14:24:31] <marka> Zombie
[14:24:40] <marka> axfr-clarify ....
[14:24:42] <Suz> axfr-clarify.....eeek
[14:24:48] <marka> stuck in limbo
[14:25:05] <marka> returning to list.
[14:25:24] <msj> to kill a zombie, cut off its head, fill the mouth with salt and sew the mouth shut...
[14:25:46] <marka> NSEC3 Status and issues
[14:25:48] <Olaf (Co-chair)> Thanks MSJ...
[14:25:56] <Olaf (Co-chair)> That is just what I needed to know :-)
[14:26:01] <weiler> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zombie
[14:26:13] <Olaf (Co-chair)> Where does the garlic come in?
[14:26:15] <marka> http://www.nsec3.org
[14:26:23] <msj> that's for vampires
[14:26:28] <weiler> and NSEC3 drafts
[14:26:32] <Jelte Jansen> was that a question who has read the nsec3 drafts?
[14:26:42] <marka> awaiting projector
[14:26:55] <marcos.sanz> In the meantime: garlic only scares vampires, doesn't kill them
[14:27:09] <scottr> Jelte - yes, a number of people have read the draft, now asking who is going to the workshop
[14:27:37] <Jelte Jansen> i have, and the experimental implementations i have seen seemed to differ from the last published one (for instance on the iteration rdata field)
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[14:29:00] <marka> Current issues at http://www.nsec3.org
[14:29:20] <msj> vampires - wooden stake through the heart, exposure to sunlight, removing the head and burying the pieces in blessed ground, imersing in running water (streams etc)
[14:29:25] <marka> some removed, some added since vancouver.
[14:29:54] <marka> workshop 8-10 May at DENIC
[14:30:05] <robertml> Would be great if people had their slides ready in good time for the chairs to upload them to the tools-site. Would make the remote experience much much nicer.
[14:30:55] <marka> -05 to be submitted shortly
[14:31:08] <marka> on http://www.nsec3.org
[14:32:58] <marka> nsd 2.3.3 working (Ben L)
[14:33:08] <marka> two signers
[14:33:50] <marka> unbound patch (dave to make release)
[14:34:28] <marka> Closed Issues
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[14:34:38] <robertml> Which Dave? Blacka?
[14:34:54] <weiler> yes David Blacka
[14:35:00] <robertml> thanks
[14:35:10] <marka> Use of hashes create new name owner names in zone.
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[14:36:55] <marka> Issue 2: RFC3548 base32 sort order is does not match ascii sort order.
[14:37:09] <marka> Use RFC 2938 instead.
[14:38:03] <marka> Issue 3: Determination of Correct Zone Parameters
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[14:39:44] <marka> solution. Use the NSEC3 with the SOA bit set.
[14:40:54] <marka> ? how to find this from a DB backend. Perhaps metadata
[14:41:34] <marka> ? does this work with optin. Answer yes.
[14:42:00] <marka> Issue 4: Design Rational
[14:42:15] <marka> Expanded as of -04 more in -05
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[14:42:46] <marka> Issue 5. Hash Function RDATA Too Short
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[14:43:23] <marka> optin bit moved to higb bit of iterations.
[14:43:45] <marka> Issue 6: case folding of hash owner name.
[14:44:07] <marka> base32 encoded labels.
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[14:44:29] <marka> Issue 7L MAximum Doamin name Length
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[14:44:59] <marka> Use NSEC rather than NSEC3 for these zones.
[14:45:34] --- scottr has joined
[14:46:34] <marka> Open Issues:
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[14:47:02] <marka> Issue 8: NSEC 3 Signaling Mechanism
[14:47:31] <marka> proposed solution use unknown algorithm
[14:47:40] <Jelte Jansen> in the ds?
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[14:47:50] <marka> Issue 9: Potential DoS on Resolvers
[14:48:08] <weiler> presumably. I've suggest in the DS message digest, but geoff didn't talk about that.
[14:49:03] <marka> Lots of iterations in resolver. talking to security area directorate
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[14:49:38] <weiler> i don't hear geoff asking for discussion on any of these topics.
[14:49:45] <marka> Issue 10: Potential DoS on Servers
[14:49:58] <Jelte Jansen> apart from brute force attacks there is no other to use a higher number of iterations is there?
[14:50:06] <marka> Similar issues for name err responses
[14:50:18] <mrichardson> so... it becomes a mythological type thing... like repeating some name 3 times in front of a mirror will cause you to die... telling your browser three times about some cool name, causes your computer to die....
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[14:51:44] <marka> ? do we really need the iteration field.
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[14:52:08] <marka> reason to make the offline attack more expensive.
[14:52:26] <Jelte Jansen> my sound got cut
[14:53:23] <marka> roy: says closed because in req. doc
[14:54:24] <Jelte Jansen> are their more benefits than dangers with high iterations is the question i guess
[14:54:54] <marka> ben: sever can set 0 iterations.
[14:55:35] <Jelte Jansen> 0 iterations after the first hash? (that's one of the things i saw in the implementations vs the draft)
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[14:56:07] <Jelte Jansen> hehe
[14:56:52] <marka> Issue 11: Queries for NSEC 3 RRs
[14:57:41] <marka> Resolution, send NOERROR/NODATA and NSEC3 RR.
[14:58:00] <robertml> I don't think the paradox is an issue.
[14:58:16] <Jelte Jansen> even direct querying for NSEC records gives you problems
[14:58:20] <marka> sam: needs to be raised on namedroppers
[14:59:09] <marka> MSJ: this covers server end. What does resolver do?
[15:00:08] <marka> MSJ: is concerned this is not complete
[15:00:17] <Jelte Jansen> i agree, send this to the list please
[15:01:27] <msj> will do..
[15:03:19] <marka> Issue 12: NSEC3 RR ownername coincidence
[15:03:36] <Jelte Jansen> if it is possible people will try it :)
[15:04:16] <marka> Believe that no special processing required. Resolvers need to be aware of it.
[15:04:46] <marka> Issue 13: DDNS and Optin determination.
[15:06:32] <marka> lots more discussion required
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[15:08:02] <robertml> Someone please ask Geoff to update the nsec3 website to actually list that workshop?
[15:08:10] <marka> Look for possible final doc post may workshop
[15:09:16] <marka> Steve: How long to get draft out? answer about a month.
[15:09:37] <marka> Key rollover requirements. Ross Munday
[15:09:48] <weiler> Russ Mundy.
[15:09:54] <Olaf (Co-chair)> remote people can hear mundy?
[15:10:04] <robertml> yes
[15:10:19] <Jelte Jansen> better than olafur but not nearly as well as i could hear you earlier
[15:10:48] <Jelte Jansen> but yes :)
[15:11:13] <weiler> Russ is using the lavalier mike.
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[15:12:59] <marka> more requirements needed. 3 inputs post vancouver before 00
[15:13:38] <Jelte Jansen> sounds like any list :)
[15:13:41] <marka> 10 req identified
[15:14:02] <marka> 100 mesages on namedroppers. 90 on one issue
[15:14:45] <marka> requirements:
[15:14:50] <Jelte Jansen> oh by the way, chair, i might have missed it, but maybe you could announce the time once in a while for the people who listen to the sound archive later and compare it to the jabber logs
[15:15:01] <marka> 5.1 Scalability
[15:15:24] <marka> - no discussion
[15:15:36] <marka> - text may be acceptable
[15:16:14] <marka> 5.2
[15:16:54] <marka> No Intellectial Property Encumberance
[15:17:04] <marka> - HUGE disscussion
[15:17:15] <marka> - Seems to have suffient words
[15:17:29] <marka> 5.3 General Applicability
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[15:17:40] <marka> - minimal discussion
[15:17:48] <marka> - text may be acceptable
[15:19:13] <msj> sorry - missed text ... just read it - its fine (17 March text)
[15:19:27] <marka> Reissue hum March 16. quiet hum on reading, smaller agree, none disagree
[15:19:35] <Jelte Jansen> hehe sound got cut out at the humming. is this a sign?
[15:19:59] <marka> 5.4 Support for Private Networks
[15:20:02] <wouter> But were you humming, Jelte? ;)
[15:20:08] <marka> - no disscussion
[15:20:17] <marka> - text may be acceptable
[15:20:32] <marka> 5.5. Support for Reconnecting Systems
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[15:20:57] <marka> - minimal discussion. length of time is open
[15:21:08] <marka> - descriptive text may be ok
[15:21:16] <marka> msj: has concerns
[15:21:37] <marka> 5.6 MAnual Operations Permitted
[15:21:49] <Jelte Jansen> i was completely silent wouter :)
[15:21:51] <marka> - Moderate Discusion
[15:22:04] <marka> - Not clear if text captures
[15:22:12] <marka> - may need to be split]
[15:22:27] <marka> 5.7 Timeliness
[15:22:33] <marka> - no discussion
[15:22:41] <marka> - text may be ok
[15:23:36] <marka> ok 5.1, 5.2, 5,3, 5.4, 5.8
[15:23:53] <marka> details 5.5 5.7
[15:24:01] <marka> work for rest
[15:24:40] <marka> Comment: Definitions contain embedded requirements
[15:25:31] <marka> Comment: Hilarie Orman compare ID vs WG
[15:25:41] <marka> each do has good points
[15:25:52] <marka> - neithe doc complete
[15:26:12] <marka> next:
[15:26:21] <marka> publish -01
[15:26:57] <marka> Plea for more input on 5.6 5.9 and 5.10.
[15:28:02] <marka> aim to be ready in next month or two. send text
[15:28:42] <Ted Lemon> to be clear, "send text NOW" is what Olafur said. :')
[15:29:11] <marka> note trade off in req may be made
[15:29:24] <marka> so send more req
[15:29:48] <thepurplestreak> Current document needs re-organization; mixes requirements and definitions in the beginning, possibly leading to inconsistency.
[15:30:18] <marka> bill manning: doesn't feel it meets requirements needs.
[15:31:05] <marka> bill to talk w/ editor. any changes to list ...
[15:31:58] <marka> (if you have problem with any editors on any wg doc talk to chairs)
[15:33:17] <marka> msj: limited life within DNS. longer lifetimes outside the DNS. care required
[15:33:55] <robertml> lost sound
[15:34:09] <marka> 2929bis:
[15:34:09] <Jelte Jansen> yes sound it gone completely nmow
[15:34:15] <marka> Donald
[15:35:26] <ag2> try the local link: http://videolab.uoregon.edu/events/ietf/ietf65-local.m3u
[15:35:37] <marka> describing 2929
[15:35:57] <marka> Main Problem on type codes
[15:36:17] <robertml> ag2: it works, thanks :-)
[15:36:22] <Jelte Jansen> thanks :)
[15:36:23] <marka> "IETF Consusus" and "Specification Required"
[15:36:48] <Jelte Jansen> could be the speaker but it's a lot better too
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[15:45:57] <thepurplestreak> No sound, no scribe.
[15:46:11] <rstory> sound is back for me..
[15:46:13] <Jelte Jansen> the local sound link works
[15:46:16] <Jelte Jansen> here
[15:46:23] <Ted Lemon> Oops.
[15:46:24] <dblacka> the normal scribe is standing in line to talk.
[15:46:26] <Jelte Jansen> where it's not so local at all
[15:46:27] <wouter> the scribe is waiting at the mike
[15:46:30] <robertml> sound is at http://videolab.uoregon.edu/events/ietf/ietf65-local.m3u
[15:46:36] <Jelte Jansen> can someone take over scribe?
[15:46:38] <Ted Lemon> Olaf is cutting off discussion.
[15:46:38] <robertml> (channel 1)
[15:46:45] <Jelte Jansen> because sound is very hard to follow
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[15:46:52] <Ted Lemon> Donald is soliciting feedback.
[15:47:04] <Ted Lemon> Sam is confused about what people want.
[15:47:31] <Ted Lemon> Mark: we need guidance from RFC editor - the process doesn't work sometimes.
[15:47:57] <Suz> previously, Sam was pointing out that there's been some ambiguity about what "specification required" means compared to "expert review" given that review by someone besides RFC editor may be required to determine if the specification offered is adequate for the purpose
[15:48:28] <Suz> sorry, someone besides IANA
[15:48:41] <marka> DNS Comformance Test
[15:48:42] <Jelte Jansen> and peter koch is worried about implicit assumptions about how the DNS works i believe
[15:48:56] <wouter> Yuki on his DNS conformance tester.
[15:49:05] <marka> Version 1.0 released
[15:49:22] <marka> http://www.tahi.org/dns/
[15:50:52] <marka> 300+ individual tests
[15:50:56] <marka> go grab it
[15:51:12] <Jelte Jansen> is there a collection of all tests?
[15:51:41] <ag2> audio local link is weird - actual link is http://130.129.16.247:8000/ietf651.mp3 for ch 1
[15:51:42] <Jelte Jansen> or do we have to download everything after the test tool link separately
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[15:52:22] <Jelte Jansen> DHCP-Server-247.ietf65.org. ?
[15:52:40] <marka> working through example of a test
[15:53:10] <Jelte Jansen> i must admit i can't really follow him on the audio link
[15:53:50] <jaap> Earlier versions used to have a tarball for all tests. Apparently that changed by latest release.
[15:54:16] <ag2> is this the presentation? http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/06mar/slides/dnsext-1.pdf
[15:54:19] <Jelte Jansen> could be i just missed it today
[15:54:24] <miyahiro> do you prefer to download at once?
[15:54:32] <jaap> Yes.
[15:54:55] <miyahiro> Then we will re-consider the package.
[15:55:05] <jaap> Thanks!
[15:55:09] <Jelte Jansen> great :)
[15:55:19] <miyahiro> Thanks for your comments.
[15:56:32] <marka> presentation complete
[15:56:54] <marz> dnstest-ctl@tahi.org
[15:58:24] <marka> Roy to talk on corner case/implementation choices in NSEC3
[15:58:58] <marka> NSEC3 response validation used a different approach
[15:59:05] <Jelte Jansen> could he move a little closer to the mic?
[15:59:42] <msj> better?
[16:00:12] <Jelte Jansen> not much...
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[16:06:49] <wouter> scribe talking on the mike: be careful
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[16:08:38] <Jelte Jansen> hehe
[16:08:43] <marka> closed
[16:08:44] <Jelte Jansen> who pressed fast-forward
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[16:09:20] <jaap> Olaf. We ran out of time
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