IETF
dbound
dbound@jabber.ietf.org
Tuesday, November 3, 2015< ^ >
DanYork has set the subject to: DBOUND WG at IETF93
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[08:04:55] <resnick> Martin tells me he is going to channel jabber comments.
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[08:05:16] <resnick> Doug is going to take minutes.
[08:05:43] <resnick> Others who wish to be helpful can please keep an eye out.
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[08:06:11] <Директор Области> I can *poke* an eye out…  Does that help?
[08:06:21] <Meetecho> As a heads up for remote participants via Meetecho, there's a virtual queue enabled in this room: you can get in queue to make comments or questions remotely. If you're interested in doing that, use the hand icon next to your name.
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[08:08:33] <Kurt Andersen> not hearing any audio on the meetecho instance yet
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[08:08:56] <Meetecho> Kurt Andersen: audio is up, we're listening to it
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[08:09:30] <Kurt Andersen> meetecho: thanks, I'll try rejoining
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[08:10:10] <Martin Dürst> If you want me to say something for you on the mic, please start with (mic) or some such.
[08:10:13] <resnick> What’s my meetecho chair password?
[08:10:23] <Meetecho> resnick: no need to login :)
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[08:10:28] <Meetecho> the queue you see is just a viewer
[08:10:29] <resnick> Oh, good.
[08:10:31] <Meetecho> we can handle that for you
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[08:10:39] <Meetecho> just tel us when to unmute remotes and we'll do that for you
[08:10:46] <resnick> Thx.
[08:11:19] <Meetecho> Kurt Andersen_8911: is it working now?
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[08:11:44] <Kurt Andersen> no, still not hearing anything :-(
[08:11:50] <Meetecho> let me check that
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[08:12:01] <Casey Deccio> working on my end, for what it's worth
[08:12:05] <Peter van Dijk> just dropped in so not sure what problem you are solving, but I have sound on meetecho
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[08:12:21] <Kurt Andersen> Peter: no sound on my meetecho
[08:12:32] <Peter van Dijk> tried the m3u?
[08:12:34] <Lorenzo Miniero> Kurt all channels are set up and I see data flowing
[08:12:35] <Casey Deccio> just lost sound
[08:12:41] <Peter van Dijk> i still have sound
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[08:12:45] <Lorenzo Miniero> my guess is an issue on your side (headset vs speaker issue?)
[08:12:58] <Casey Deccio> I can no longer hear anything
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[08:15:05] <Peter van Dijk> sound glitched for me just now for a few seconds
[08:15:06] <shane_kerr> Hello everyone. I am Shane and I will be your Jabber scribe for dbound today.
[08:15:07] <Meetecho> Kurt Andersen: have you tried restarting the browser if it keeps on not working? sometimes, when browsers are in between updates, webrtc seems to break
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[08:15:28] <Meetecho> if it keeps on not working, there's the webinar mode available (slides+audio) http://conf.meetecho.com/video?s=room303&r=dbound&c=8894080
[08:15:41] <shane_kerr> I will relay comments to the meeting room if you want.
[08:15:42] <Kurt Andersen> I'll try that, thanks
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[08:16:15] <resnick> Audio is OK for everyone else?
[08:16:45] <Kurt Andersen> audio comes through in webinar mode for me - thanks
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[08:16:55] <resnick> OK, good.
[08:18:13] <shane_kerr> Um. Or never mind. I am not the Jabber scribe for this room. :(
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[08:18:35] <Pete Resnick> You can do it too, Shane. :-)
[08:18:45] <Pete Resnick> But Martin is the stuckee.
[08:19:51] <Kurt Andersen> mic: there is also a question of whether "climbing the tree" needs to be stepwise or jump to target
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[08:23:43] <Kurt Andersen> mic: DMARC is not necessarily one-way; it is possible to delegate a subdomain and authorize it to have a distinct DMARC policy but I agree that solving two-way is different from solving one-way
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[08:26:11] <Pete Resnick> Kurt, do you have a mic so that you can get in the Meetecho queue, or would you prefer to just do this with text?
[08:26:16] <Kurt Andersen> It seems like the co.uk use case is covered by Casey's latest proposal
[08:26:21] <Pete Resnick> We supposedly can take people at the mic.
[08:26:50] <Meetecho> Kurt was having trouble with the WebRTC audio, so he's using the webinar mode which is receive-only
[08:26:55] <Kurt Andersen> Pete - WebRTC did not work for me - having to view/listen in webinar mode - would appreciate interjection by you guys based on text
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[08:27:25] <Pete Resnick> No worries. We'll relay. Martin is in line for you.
[08:28:00] <Kurt Andersen> Casey: can you comment on whether you consider that your proposal would handle the co.uk scenario that Andrew is discussing ?
[08:28:28] <Casey Deccio> I'm not exactly following
[08:28:33] <Pete Resnick> And it's Ray Bellis at the mic right now talking with Andrew.
[08:28:46] <wseltzer> It sounds like a broken model
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[08:28:51] <Kurt Andersen> I can only see Andrew on the stream
[08:28:56] <Pete Resnick> Now John Levine.
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[08:29:39] <Meetecho> moving the camera ;)
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[08:30:40] <Kurt Andersen> Casey: seems like this is somewhat like a +org assertion
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[08:31:17] <Pete Resnick> Australian trees apparently.
[08:31:19] <Casey Deccio> Kurt: I believe that is correct, as far as I understand it.
[08:31:53] <Kurt Andersen> Pete: the ones that grow underground
[08:31:58] <Casey Deccio> It might come back up when my draft is being discussed.
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[08:34:06] <Pete Resnick> Wes Hardeker (sp?)
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[08:35:20] <Peter van Dijk_2970> Hardaker
[08:36:22] <Kurt Andersen> mic: I'm not entirely sure how splitting them gives us a clear path forward though
[08:36:42] <Kurt Andersen> priority does become the next question
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[08:40:30] <Kurt Andersen> I can hear Casey
[08:40:35] <Peter van Dijk_2970> i hear and see you and your slides, casey
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[08:41:09] <Kurt Andersen> hand up
[08:41:18] <Kurt Andersen> (for having read draft)
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[08:50:16] <Martin Dürst> For a domain name with n labels, seems that I have to look up O(n**2) places. Is that correct?
[08:50:41] <Andrew Sullivan> That's what it has seemed to me, too, when I read this
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[08:50:57] <Kurt Andersen> mic: this appears to be bottom up one-way and very expensive to climb the tree (see note from Martin and Andrew too about expense)
[08:51:05] <Andrew Sullivan> also I don't know how you know what you're looking for
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[08:51:24] <Pete Resnick> At the end of this slide, let's answer these questions.
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[08:58:42] <JeffH> so there'd be a _odup. domain that someone has to put TLDs into ?
[08:58:46] <Martin Dürst> Slide 16, top right, looks like there needs to be a lot of information in the root.
[08:59:04] <Andrew Sullivan> I'm still mystified here and we seem to be getting into an example where the terms are totally confusing me.  In the draft we have an example
[08:59:12] <Andrew Sullivan>    For example, given the ODUP name foo.bar._odup.example.com, the
   organizational domain is example.com, and the policy domain is
   foo.bar.example.com.
[08:59:27] <Pete Resnick> Jeff/Andrew:I will presume that you will get to the mic if you actually want to say those aloud.
[08:59:43] <Kurt Andersen> Andrew, but how do you know that example.com is the org domain unless you look it up in _odup.
[08:59:45] <Kurt Andersen> ?
[09:00:03] <Pete Resnick> This is Martin Dürst.
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[09:00:47] <Andrew Sullivan> So, the "policy domain" is the one that wants to have policy, and the "organizational domain" is what contains the policy?
[09:00:52] <Andrew Sullivan> that's my point
[09:00:58] <Andrew Sullivan> I have no clue how you ever get started
[09:01:15] <Andrew Sullivan> I'm guessing that you're going to foo.bar.example.com
[09:01:24] <JeffH> @pete: yes
[09:01:34] <JeffH> i was waiting until the end of the preso
[09:01:38] <JeffH> s/was/am/
[09:01:58] <Pete Resnick> Sounds like jumping in is OK.
[09:02:32] <Kurt Andersen> seems like Casey's example in the slides started with _odup.foo.bar.example.com and climbs from there; but slide 16 makes it look like you have to zone transfer _odup. and then jump to _odup.example.com. and then work down from there
[09:03:15] <Andrew Sullivan> so you're going to foo.bar.example.com.  And now you're going to do _odop.com and then _odup.example.com
[09:03:17] <Andrew Sullivan> and so on?
[09:03:43] <Kurt Andersen> that's how I interpret the slide preso, but it's not the way I read the draft
[09:03:56] <Andrew Sullivan> It's not the way I read the draft, either, which is why I'm so confused
[09:04:03] <Kurt Andersen> I'm a bit concerned about the idea of how and who would manage _odup.
[09:05:26] <JeffH> how many more slides do you have Casey ?
[09:05:48] <Pete Resnick> 8.
[09:05:53] <Martin Dürst> JeffH, the slides should be online.
[09:05:56] <Pete Resnick> We'll have to move this along.
[09:06:52] <Kurt Andersen> Ted: I think that one of the goals of dbound is to decouple the admin vs. policy boundaries
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[09:08:05] <Andrew Sullivan> it is, yes
[09:11:31] <Ted.h> So, I had not understood that decouple might involve creation of a completely different hierarchy under something ._odup .
[09:11:44] <Ted.h> I appreciate the clarification.
[09:16:06] <Andrew Sullivan> The idea is that we start from the premise that people are making policy on the basis of names, and the DNS administrative distinctions are not actually related to those policy boundaries
[09:16:56] <resnick> But that doesn’t imply to me that it needs to be completely orthogonal to the DNS admin structure.
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[09:17:38] <Peter van Dijk_2970> wouldn't the DNAME imply that policy can be inferred from the DNAME target anyway?
[09:17:42] <Kurt Andersen> resnick: not "needs to be" but "may be"
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[09:31:04] <John Levine> This isn't how wildcards work
[09:31:52] <Andrew Sullivan> It wasn't the last time you pointed that out, either, and that didn't affect his view
[09:34:39] <Casey Deccio> Peter - that's correct (regarding DNAME)
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[09:35:18] <Casey Deccio> hand up (for having read draft)
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[09:38:35] <Kurt Andersen> mic: +1 for Pete's idea to ruminate on goals and steps toward such
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[09:40:17] <Kurt Andersen> Personally I'd like to review the prior suggested I-D's to see how they might align with the three different operative modes
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[09:41:56] <Casey Deccio> PSL: the only running code and existing solution
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[09:42:21] <Kurt Andersen> I don't agree that the PSL is worse than all other proposals to date
[09:42:23] <John Levine> I'll refresh my draft in view of what we heard today
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[09:42:40] <Kurt Andersen> ttfn
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[09:42:55] <Pete Resnick> Thanks all, especially Casey for braving the night.
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