IETF
dane@jabber.ietf.org
Monday, July 20, 2015< ^ >
jakob has set the subject to: DANE WG @ IETF'92
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[16:34:54] dnshane has set the subject to: DANE WG @ IETF 93
[16:35:13] <dnshane> Right? :)
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[16:45:40] <vdukhovni@gmail.com> [OT] note for Dan York: internetsociety.org. IN MX 0 internetsociety-org.mail.protection.outlook.com.    Thus no possibility of TLSA records.  The mail.protection.outlook.com zone is unsigned and mishandles TLSA queries.  It would be nice to have this hosted by a DANE capable provider…
[16:45:50] Ted Lemon joins the room
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[16:46:08] <DanYork> vdukhovni@gmail.com: Yes, we're working on that! ;-)
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[16:47:59] <DanYork> And now the DNS tribe gathers yet again in Congress Hall II, having only left here about 1 hour ago... but for that time going upstairs to Athens for DBOUND ...
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[16:51:01] <Ted Lemon> A chair hat should look like a chair, obviously.
[16:51:34] <dnshane> I'm glad Warren can finally express himself through the media of habberdashery.
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[16:52:48] <DanYork> David Lawrence doing minutes
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[16:52:59] <Ted Lemon> Camera is pointed at a nice gentleman with a coke bottle, and also at Stephen, not at the chairs.
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[16:54:39] <Ted Lemon> Oh wow, Warren has a _different_ hat!
[16:54:45] <Ted Lemon> Thanks for the camera move!
[16:55:34] <Hosnieh Rafiee> I have problem to enter to meetecho room :|
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[16:56:28] <DanYork> Ted Lemon: NOC is now controlling all the cameras remotely
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[16:59:04] <DanYork> Here's a picture of Warren's hat for those remote you can't get on Meetecho - https://twitter.com/danyork/status/623174517410496512/photo/1
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[17:00:08] <Hosnieh Rafiee_4241> :D
[17:00:11] <Hosnieh Rafiee_4241> this is nice
[17:00:18] <Hosnieh Rafiee_4241> is it a gift?
[17:01:16] <DanYork> hosnieh rafiee - No, Warren just brought hats :-)
[17:01:44] <paulwouters> i guess i get no hats :P
[17:01:52] <DanYork> Hahaha
[17:02:01] <DanYork> Earlier today he was wearing this: https://twitter.com/danyork/status/623142046031720449
[17:02:07] <DanYork> Mark Andrews was at mic
[17:02:11] <DanYork> Richard Barnes was at mic
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[17:02:55] <Ted Lemon> I think the teletubby hat is my favorite, but the mongolian hat is pretty great too.
[17:03:14] <Hosnieh Rafiee> but isn't it warm there?
[17:03:24] <Hosnieh Rafiee> or the room are freezing like all IETF :D
[17:03:26] <Ted Lemon> form over function.
[17:03:29] <dnshane> Freezing.
[17:03:40] <dnshane> I put on a sweater.
[17:03:57] <Ted Lemon> I am enjoying the IETF experience from home because the place where I've set up my monitor is right in front of the air conditioner.
[17:04:05] <DanYork> It's just Warren being Warren.  :-)
[17:04:26] <paulwouters> i wish my sweater was not in my hotel room
[17:04:27] <Hosnieh Rafiee> @Ted: lucky you... I'm melting down in the heat in my room at home
[17:04:42] <Ted Lemon> Sorry! :(
[17:04:44] <Hosnieh Rafiee> We never thought this country would be as hot as this
[17:04:51] <Ted Lemon> Germany?
[17:04:54] Benno Overeinder joins the room
[17:04:55] <Hosnieh Rafiee> Yes
[17:05:08] <Ted Lemon> Yeah, there have been some really rough summers there recently.
[17:05:11] <Hosnieh Rafiee> we need a protocol to control heat
[17:05:32] <Ted Lemon> We can just ftp all the carbon to a carbon sink somewhere.
[17:05:37] <dnshane> This seems like it is turning into a generic Offline DNS mechanism?
[17:06:07] Hosnieh Rafiee_6508 joins the room
[17:06:11] <habbie@gmail.com> not really, you don't control the actual query
[17:06:30] <Ted Lemon> It's a pretty cool hack.
[17:07:12] <DanYork> Daniel Kahn Gillmor at mic
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[17:08:00] <vdukhovni@gmail.com> Please relay: Should RRsets proving non-delegation of intermediate nodes between the RRset and signing zone apex be included?
[17:08:39] <DanYork> Christian Grothoff at mic
[17:08:47] <DanYork> okay
[17:08:52] <dnshane> vdukhovni@gmail.com: use case?
[17:09:49] <dnshane> Good point!
[17:09:54] <dnshane> (Mixing layers.)
[17:10:00] <habbie@gmail.com> unavoidable :)
[17:10:32] <habbie@gmail.com> s/providing/proving/
[17:10:38] <vdukhovni@gmail.com> proving  not providing
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[17:11:22] <DanYork> vdukhovni@gmail.com: sorry about that... thanks for the correction
[17:11:25] <habbie@gmail.com> pretty sure the question got lost in translation
[17:11:28] <DanYork> Paul Wouters at mic
[17:11:29] <dnshane> Yes
[17:11:29] <vdukhovni@gmail.com> No proving that a zone is not delegated, e.g. block .com from lying about example.com
[17:12:19] <dnshane> vdukhovni@gmail.com: That's not possible in DNSSEC, in general.
[17:12:30] <dnshane> Trust goes from top to bottom.
[17:14:09] <DanYork> Petr Spacek at mic
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[17:14:20] <DanYork> Richard Barnes at mic
[17:15:56] <vdukhovni@gmail.com> FWIW, I'm on the OpenSSL team lately, and might be the one adding support for this in OpenSSL if it moves forward.
[17:16:12] <DanYork> vdukhovni@gmail.com: Cool!
[17:16:25] <DanYork> Daniel Kahn Gillmor at mic
[17:16:44] <Ted Lemon> +1 to Daniel.
[17:16:57] <DanYork> +1 from Richard Barnes, too
[17:17:04] <DanYork> Peter Koch at mic
[17:17:24] <Carl Mehner> seems that this would be a good companion to the draft I wrote last year: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-cem-dane-assertion-00
[17:17:27] <DanYork> Wes Hardaker at mic
[17:18:44] <vdukhovni@gmail.com> Relay?:  Sadly, simplification is not possible. Signed data does not allow summarization without loss of integrity protection.
[17:19:03] <DanYork> Paul Hoffman
[17:19:09] <DanYork> vdukhovni@gmail.com: mic line was cut
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[17:19:45] <DanYork> Shumon is presenting next presentation
[17:20:07] <DanYork> Slides: https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/93/slides/slides-93-dane-0.pdf
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[17:20:30] <DanYork> Draft: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-huque-dane-client-cert-01
[17:21:29] <ilari.liusvaara> vdukhovni@gmail.com, basically, either the chain won't build or the built chain can't be told apart from the true chain.
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[17:25:32] <DanYork> ?? at mic  (name said too quickly)
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[17:25:44] <cas> Clemens Schrimpe
[17:25:50] <vdukhovni@gmail.com> Relay: Servers are usually better able to make DNS queries than clients are...
[17:25:52] <DanYork> thank you
[17:25:58] <vdukhovni@gmail.com> Same last mile problem.
[17:26:01] <Russ Mundy> not hearing sound
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[17:26:30] <rstory> audio (mp3 feed) working for me
[17:26:50] <RussMundy> I'll reload the page
[17:27:01] <sftcd> apparently meetecho are pinged if you put their name in the room
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[17:27:11] <DanYork> relaying
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[17:27:46] <RussMundy> reload of page solved it
[17:27:47] <DanYork> dkg at mic
[17:29:26] <vdukhovni@gmail.com> TLS client auth at least through TLS 1.2 leaks the client certificate content.
[17:30:45] <DanYork> Now in these slides:  https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/93/slides/slides-93-dane-3.pdf
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[17:31:11] <DanYork> Paul Hoffman
[17:31:24] <DanYork> Paul Wouters at mic
[17:34:14] <DanYork> Dan York at mic
[17:34:19] <DanYork> Peter Koch at mic
[17:35:11] <Ted Lemon> Hm, that doesn't sound right to me.
[17:35:19] <habbie@gmail.com> what?
[17:35:33] <Ted Lemon> That registrar-managed zones are where this info will be published.
[17:35:36] <habbie@gmail.com> (I don't know how much latency you are on)
[17:35:40] <habbie@gmail.com> ah
[17:35:57] <Ted Lemon> I don't think very much.
[17:36:08] <habbie@gmail.com> if it's only going to be published in geek-managed zones i'm not sure what's the point
[17:36:36] <Ted Lemon> Yeah, I'm not convinced that Dan is right; I'm just not sure that Peter's reason why he isn't right is the right reason. :)
[17:36:41] <habbie@gmail.com> heh
[17:36:43] <habbie@gmail.com> yes
[17:36:45] <Ted Lemon> The web provisioning interface problem is a real problem.
[17:36:49] <habbie@gmail.com> absolutely
[17:37:33] <Hosnieh Rafiee> so they wanna not having new RRs?
[17:37:50] <dnshane> "It's just software." :P
[17:37:52] <Ted Lemon> YES!
[17:38:14] <Ted Lemon> flicks lighter at Paul Hoffman
[17:38:35] <DanYork> Petr Spacek at mic
[17:39:02] <DanYork> Mark Andrews at mic
[17:39:39] <vdukhovni@gmail.com> Relay: What is the question again?  Are we talking about qname unification or RRtype unification, both or neither (for SMIMEA and OPENPGPKEY)?
[17:40:22] <DanYork> only name
[17:40:37] <vdukhovni@gmail.com> So this is about _at vs _smimecert?
[17:40:58] <habbie@gmail.com> it was until paul stepped up again
[17:41:06] <DanYork> :-)
[17:41:38] <Hosnieh Rafiee_6508> I would like to be
[17:41:38] <John Levine> Mic: e-mail is dominated by a handful of large providers with >100M users. Has anyone other than me talked to them about this?
[17:41:48] <Hosnieh Rafiee_6508> a reviewer :-)
[17:41:57] <Ted Lemon> I would review.
[17:42:07] <John Levine> I'll review, but you know what I'll say.
[17:42:21] <habbie@gmail.com> that's why I'm not reviewing :)
[17:42:38] <DanYork> John Levine: do you still want a relay?
[17:42:45] <John Levine> nah
[17:42:50] <DanYork> ok
[17:42:52] <John Levine> they've made it clear they're not interested
[17:42:57] <DanYork> Allison Mankin at mic
[17:43:33] <DanYork> Paul Wouters at mic
[17:43:50] <DanYork> Paul Hoffman says same as Paul Wouters
[17:44:27] <AB> Why in local part in _smimecert and _openpgpkey are different?  (SHA-2 256 HEX truncated to 28 octets vs SHA-2 224)
[17:44:37] <DanYork> Allison Mankin at mic
[17:44:45] <DanYork> AB: is that for relay?
[17:45:54] <AB> Dan, yes, please
[17:46:13] <vdukhovni@gmail.com> Two issues related to the qname, the localpart encoding, and the _label that follows it…
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[17:46:39] <DanYork> AB - your name, please? :-)
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[17:47:00] <habbie@gmail.com> AB: that's what was meant with tracking the second draft to the first
[17:47:05] <habbie@gmail.com> AB: the drafts will synchronise on that point
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[17:47:20] <John Levine> Mic: e-mail is dominated by a handful of large providers with >100M users. Has anyone other than me talked to them about this?
[17:47:56] <AB> Habble: thanks!
[17:47:58] <DanYork> Paul Hoffman at mic
[17:48:05] <DanYork> AB - did you hear the answer?
[17:48:12] <AB> Yes
[17:48:25] <John Levine> Mic: no normalization defined for UTF-8 local parts
[17:48:35] <vdukhovni@gmail.com> Relay: Online signing without fuzzy matching works with or without hashing.  It's the fuzzy matching that requires base32 (and then forces online signing).
[17:48:37] <John Levine> base32 doesn't have that problem
[17:48:53] <John Levine> (local parts are not u-labels)
[17:49:08] <habbie@gmail.com> vdukhovni@gmail.com: with hashing, online signing cannot give you dot stripping or +subadressing
[17:49:13] aaron leaves the room
[17:49:45] <DanYork> Ike (?) from PowerDNS at mic
[17:50:13] <DanYork> Hum FOR people who like base 32
[17:50:22] <habbie@gmail.com> Peter van Dijk is my name, Dan :)
[17:50:27] <habbie@gmail.com> sound was a bit spotty
[17:50:27] <vdukhovni@gmail.com> Base32: leaks easier to sniff data in cleartext.
[17:50:40] <DanYork> WAIT ... we're NOT humming
[17:50:44] <habbie@gmail.com> that was brought up on the list today indeed
[17:50:49] <DanYork> dkg at mic
[17:51:00] <Hosnieh Rafiee_6508> I also do not like base32
[17:51:00] <DanYork> habbie@gmail.com: Aha! That's you.  Thanks.
[17:51:25] Dan Wing leaves the room
[17:51:31] <habbie@gmail.com> yes, somehow my name is not showing in this jabber room
[17:51:33] <DanYork> Paul Hoffman at mic
[17:52:19] <DanYork> dkg at mic
[17:52:50] <Carsten Strotmann> hummmmm
[17:52:50] <John Levine> hummmmm
[17:52:51] <DanYork> Hum FOR base 32
[17:52:58] <vdukhovni@gmail.com> Relay: humm
[17:53:11] <John Levine> hey, there was three
[17:53:16] <Ted Lemon> yeah
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[17:53:18] <DanYork> I said that to Warren
[17:53:21] <Ted Lemon> hummmmm
[17:53:23] <Hosnieh Rafiee_6508> hummmmm
[17:53:23] <DanYork> Hum Against
[17:53:24] <Hosnieh Rafiee_6508> hummmmm
[17:53:36] <Ted Lemon> Hosnieh hummed twice!
[17:53:44] <Ted Lemon> hummmmm
[17:53:45] <Russ Mundy> hummmmm
[17:53:48] <DanYork> Hum if you think we need to investigate
[17:53:49] <Hosnieh Rafiee_6508> hummmmm
[17:53:58] <Ted Lemon> three
[17:54:06] <Hosnieh Rafiee_6508> sorry :) by mistake. just double click on humm
[17:54:32] <Ted Lemon> Ask why people hummed!
[17:54:40] <DanYork> dkg at mic
[17:54:53] <Hosnieh Rafiee_6508> @Ted: good point
[17:55:10] <DanYork> hum if you think we should not decide
[17:55:11] <Hosnieh Rafiee_6508> hummmmm
[17:55:12] <Russ Mundy> hummmmm
[17:55:45] <DanYork> Paul Wouters at mic
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[17:56:03] <John Levine> for once I agree with Paul W
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[17:56:13] <DanYork> Decision deadline for August 1
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[17:56:36] <vdukhovni@gmail.com> Question 1: Localpart encoding
[17:56:43] <vdukhovni@gmail.com> Question 2: _label choice.
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[17:56:48] <Ted Lemon> thanks, Dan!
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[17:56:54] <DanYork> Bye everyone
[17:56:55] <John Levine> yes, tnx
[17:56:55] <Hosnieh Rafiee_6508> Thanks Dan! :-)
[17:56:59] <Ted Lemon> Nice to see all my IETF friends, even if they are a bit pixelated!
[17:56:59] <vdukhovni@gmail.com> Question 3: RRDATA consensus.
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[17:57:01] <DanYork> You're welcome
[17:57:01] <RussMundy> thanks Dan great job
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