[00:38:51] jmspeex leaves the room [00:51:06] jmspeex joins the room [01:04:21] jmspeex leaves the room [01:09:28] jmspeex joins the room [02:23:24] juinhwey leaves the room [03:48:51] jmspeex leaves the room [04:48:57] Cullen joins the room [04:49:49] juinhwey joins the room [04:50:14] aboba joins the room [04:52:02] juinhwey leaves the room [04:52:37] juinhwey joins the room [04:53:31] jmspeex joins the room [05:00:26] finlayson joins the room [05:04:18] Jonathan Lennox joins the room [05:04:28] customary in RAI ? [05:04:31] jon-ietf joins the room [05:04:38] paul.erkkila joins the room [05:04:39] As long as you're doing better than e2md in Anaheim [05:04:46] heh [05:07:59] hta joins the room [05:08:16] Technical issues. [05:10:33] Level is fine. [05:10:45] Randall Gellens joins the room [05:11:00] and now they have a successful way to hook the audio samples to the speaker system too. [05:11:32] mlm.michael.miller joins the room [05:12:04] Jon Peterson making a special guest appearance. [05:12:12] burn joins the room [05:12:25] Christian and Magnus are minute takers. [05:12:41] RjS joins the room [05:12:42] Jabber scribe? Jon is in the room. [05:12:58] tomkri joins the room [05:13:01] i think you're scribing well already bernard! [05:13:23] agenda slide and working group status [05:13:27] Agenda today: update on WG status, look at requirements doc and guidelines status, will talk about codec status and a design tutorial on what's been in development so far. At the end we'll talk about testing status and will wrap up. Cool two hours. [05:13:45] In green on codec spec, have caught up on guidelines and requirements docs. [05:14:11] stpeter joins the room [05:14:11] jhildebr@cisco.com joins the room [05:14:13] Current version of reqts doc is -02, incorporates group input from IETF 78 session, didn't look like all of the elements were updated. [05:14:25] All up to date? OK. [05:14:33] suzukisn joins the room [05:14:59] Anyone have any issues on requirements doc as it stands? Guidelines doc is in revision 8. Incorporates group input from the mailing list since IETF 78, primarily editorial corrections. [05:15:06] finlayson leaves the room [05:15:38] Eric Norvell: There is a serious problems with guidelines doc, reflects a problem in the WG. No clear preference for an unencumbered codec. This was an important part at the charter. [05:15:39] YJS joins the room [05:17:17] Eric Norvell: A very vague statement in the guidelines doc about "technologies with no known IPR terms, with royalty-free licensing"... could come with special conditions like non-assertion statement which would make the codec encumbered... could become something dragged into patent litigation, used as a shield or a weapon, which was not what was intended. It should be clarified that there is a preference for unencumbered technologies, and a clarification of this term. [05:17:26] as0-d91k joins the room [05:17:54] Jon Marc Valet: We discussed this issue and the idea was to take the txt in the charter and put it in the guidelines doc, but apparently some paragraph is missing and it will be updated. [05:18:11] csp joins the room [05:18:12] Jon Marc: Not sure we want to go into more details on that, just getting what we have took a lot of time. [05:18:33] Michael: One of the things we discussed on the mailing list was that we would set up a separate mailing list for that activity. [05:18:49] aboba: I'm in the room next door and can come over if needed to provide perspective based on formation of the WG [05:19:04] Jon Marc: What was discussed was a mailing list for specific patent issues.... [05:19:21] csp leaves the room [05:20:13] Mustafa: My comment is similar to Eric. i agree with his point to consider unencumbered codec. An option is to consider the non-licensing case... this draft needs to consider this. [05:20:46] folks listening to streaming audio: Can you hear the speakers? [05:21:04] Yes. [05:21:32] yes - sound great [05:21:32] : What is the definition of "non-licensed": Content with no encumbrance claims, whether licensing or not? Are you asking for clarification on what this means? [05:22:15] jhildebr@cisco.com is now known as hildjj [05:22:19] Jon Peterson: To reiterate how IETF deals with IPR claims: we aren't in a position to receive them and docuemnt that, but can't make a judgment on validity... terms like "encumbered" are difficult to evaluate.... [05:22:38] Jon Peterson: Can you say what practically you want to see in the document, or can you send text? [05:23:37] Eric Norvell: to add a small comment... what I am requesting is a way to know how to weigh technical merit against unencumbrance issues. [05:24:17] Eric Norvell: more clear working process may be helpful, if it were more clear and known.... uncertainty is a deterence.... how merits vs. IPR will be treated. [05:25:35] tsavo_work@jabber.org/Meebo joins the room [05:31:08] watch out for that word "table this" - it means the complete opposite thing in English and American. [05:34:14] gmaxwell joins the room [05:35:01] back to the preso, now [05:35:54] continuing with doc status [05:39:17] starting on the silk/celt preso [05:41:31] now the celt update [05:44:27] celt open issues [05:45:13] now the fun part - codec samples [05:45:23] for the folks in the back of the room - when we switch speakers next, getting the mic closer to the speaker would help [05:46:11] Ok listening to theses remote, uh, less than ideal :-) [05:46:32] it was a real hack to get this going at all [05:47:11] It sounds like the demo audio signals were severely clipped. [05:47:24] it sounds good in the room [05:47:49] we might be able to make these samples available onlie [05:47:53] *online [05:48:19] I think a some of them might be online already [05:48:46] we're going to put them all up after the meeting [05:48:59] Great, thanks. [05:49:23] from a listener in the room: might be better to play the best quality first and then progressively more compressed [05:49:35] Indeed [05:49:41] easier to tell the difference [05:50:00] resnick joins the room [05:50:00] of course, I think we're almost done now [05:50:05] yeah, pretty much [05:51:51] hildjj leaves the room: Replaced by new connection. [05:52:12] done with the samples now [05:52:19] moving on to the silk overview [05:56:42] Are the presentation slides on line? [05:57:07] yes i believe they all are [05:57:20] https://wiki.tools.ietf.org/wg/codec/agenda?item=agenda79.html [https://wiki.tools.ietf.org/wg/codec/agenda?item=agenda79.html] [06:00:08] Thanks. I clicked on another link earlier in the jabber room chat, but that brought me to the last meeting. [06:02:59] burn leaves the room [06:05:27] moving on to the celt overview preso [06:19:46] celt preso concluding [06:24:57] juinhwey: Hope I didn't misrepresent your post-filter idea [06:30:03] is guns n' roses supposed to be the metal option there? just curious [06:31:01] Hi Jean-Marc, you did a great job presenting it! Thanks! The only comment I have is that calling it "pitch postfilter" may potentially be misleading as people may think that it is the traditional postfilter-only approach. That's why I have always called it pitch prefilter/postfilter, or simply pitch filtering. [06:34:55] Randall Gellens leaves the room [06:36:31] Question for Michael: I understand listening level calibration ensures repeatability of the test result, but doesn't it make more sense for each listener to adjust the listening level to their preferred listening level since that's how a typical user will listen and that's how they will eventually judge the audio quality of the IETF codec in the real world? [06:39:10] Randall Gellens joins the room [06:41:16] stpeter leaves the room: Disconnected: connection closed [06:41:29] wrapping up [06:41:35] any last thoughts? [06:41:40] juinhwey: did you want that relayed? [06:41:48] Yes, please. [06:42:00] Thank you guys [06:43:11] Michael, thanks for your answer. 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