IETF
clue@jabber.ietf.org
Thursday, 29 March 2012< ^ >
RjS has set the subject to: Clue WG
Room Configuration

GMT+0
[15:37:51] Lorenzo Miniero joins the room
[15:37:53] Meetecho Audio joins the room
[15:38:04] John Leslie joins the room
[15:38:55] Tobia Castaldi joins the room
[15:38:59] Alessandro Amirante joins the room
[15:43:22] <Tobia Castaldi> Slide 3: Agenda – Tuesday, March 27, 09:00-11:3
[15:43:35] <Tobia Castaldi> Slide 3: Agenda – Tuesday, March 27, 09:00-11:3
[15:43:52] <Tobia Castaldi> Slide 4: Agenda – Thursday, March 29 17:40-19:4
[15:43:56] <Tobia Castaldi> Slide 5: Way Forward
[15:43:59] <Tobia Castaldi> Presentazione interrotta
[15:44:20] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 1: draft-wenger-clue-transport-02
[15:44:27] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 1: draft-wenger-clue-transport-02
[15:44:29] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 2: Assumptions
[15:44:47] <Alessandro Amirante> Hi all, Meetecho is at www.meetecho.com/ietf83/clue
[15:45:42] Jonathan Lennox joins the room
[15:45:53] tsuichi joins the room
[15:47:29] tomoyuki tsuichihara joins the room
[15:50:22] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 3: Options for CLUE message Transport
[15:52:50] jesup joins the room
[15:57:19] <jesup> mic: other options: encoded in RTP as if it's a codec to ease working through SBC's/etc (handle unreliability ourselves). Or open a rtcweb-style DataChannel over DTLS (SCTP/DTLS/(ICE-UDP) in rtcweb) and use it to transport messages. WebRTC applicatons will likely do things like this
[15:57:53] <jesup> realize I haven't been following clue much :-)
[15:58:37] <jesup> rtcweb DataChannels are SCTP -reliable, partially-reliable, unreliable, fragmentation, etc
[15:58:51] <jesup> covers all that was just mentioned by Stefan
[15:59:28] <jesup> Is someone echoing from jabber to the room?
[15:59:59] <Lorenzo Miniero> wait a sec I'll channel you
[16:00:15] <jesup> Open-source implementation of the DataChannels is up and working. (THanks lorenzo)
[16:02:50] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 4: Options for CLUE message content represe
[16:03:07] Simon Romano joins the room
[16:03:34] <jesup> Isn't the IETF motto "rough consensus and running code"? ;-)
[16:03:57] <Lorenzo Miniero> +1 :)
[16:04:35] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 3: Options for CLUE message Transport
[16:04:40] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 2: Assumptions
[16:05:00] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 3: Options for CLUE message Transport
[16:06:02] oej joins the room
[16:07:28] Espen Berger joins the room
[16:08:34] <jesup> I considered RTCP and rejected it :-)
[16:10:34] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 5: How to continue…
[16:11:46] oej leaves the room
[16:11:51] <Lorenzo Miniero> Presentazione interrotta
[16:12:14] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 1: Implementing CLUE encoding provider advertisement in SDP
[16:12:59] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 2: What we did
[16:13:32] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 3: Why?
[16:14:53] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 4: Encoding Group
[16:15:21] Mo Zanaty joins the room
[16:15:25] oej joins the room
[16:15:34] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 3: Why?
[16:16:37] bemaestro5 joins the room
[16:18:29] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 4: Encoding Group
[16:19:24] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 5: Assumptions
[16:20:38] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 6: The issue
[16:22:49] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 7: Two approaches explored
[16:23:26] Mahalingam Mani joins the room
[16:23:41] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 8: Initial offer/answer bidirectional
[16:24:08] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 9: Issue with bidirectional approach
[16:25:15] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 10: Possible solution
[16:25:36] <Lorenzo Miniero> sorry, the slides look a bit different than the ones being projected
[16:25:50] <Lorenzo Miniero> I guess they got updated on the materials page shortly before the meeting
[16:26:00] <Lorenzo Miniero> they're almost the same, though, just small additions
[16:26:39] <Lorenzo Miniero> this is the up-to-date deck: http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/83/slides/slides-83-clue-8.pdf
[16:29:01] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 11: Unidirectional approach
[16:30:12] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 12: Multiple offer/answers
[16:32:07] Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2) joins the room
[16:32:47] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> Do we have remote participants in the channel?
[16:34:41] <Jonathan Lennox> Olle: Jesup is remote
[16:34:42] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> agree with Paul
[16:34:45] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> ok
[16:34:52] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> Paul V on mic
[16:35:05] <Jonathan Lennox> Paul Kyzviat
[16:35:12] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> Right.
[16:35:22] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> I seriously need to refresh my name cache.
[16:37:42] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> Helen ?
[16:37:50] <Lorenzo Miniero> Allyn Romanow
[16:38:12] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> …I don't remember and my hearing is bad… ;-)
[16:38:38] <Lorenzo Miniero> :)
[16:39:25] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> Roni Even talking
[16:40:26] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> Rob Hansen talking
[16:42:28] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 13: Representation of encodings
[16:42:29] oej leaves the room
[16:43:52] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 14: Issues CLUE params in SDP
[16:44:35] <Lorenzo Miniero> sorry, as I anticipated, not the same slide deck... the current example slide is not in the one we downloaded
[16:44:42] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 14: Issues CLUE params in SDP
[16:46:33] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> Keith Drage talking
[16:47:54] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> sdp o/a plus an out of band information exchange.
[16:48:09] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> Paul K talking
[16:49:59] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> Christer HOlmberg talking
[16:50:48] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> Allyn Romanow talking
[16:51:38] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> Roni Even talking
[16:52:45] Thomas Stach joins the room
[16:53:45] <Lorenzo Miniero> Presentazione interrotta
[16:53:51] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> — Next presentation
[16:54:12] Espen Berger leaves the room
[16:54:24] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 1: About the I-D
[16:54:51] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 1: About the I-D
[16:54:55] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> — draft-cazeaux-clue-sip-signaling
[16:55:16] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 2: Signalling Requirements
[16:55:29] Gonzalo joins the room
[16:55:37] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-cazeaux-clue-sip-signaling-01
[16:56:34] Magnus joins the room
[16:57:31] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 3: Mapping media captures and selection to
[17:00:02] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 4: Solution A
[17:02:08] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 5: provider Role
[17:03:34] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 6: Solution B-1
[17:03:38] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 5: provider Role
[17:03:48] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 6: Solution B-1
[17:03:58] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> Too much small text on a single page for an old man in the back of the room
[17:05:01] <Lorenzo Miniero> a good reason to look at them in Meetecho then! :D
[17:05:12] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 7: m=video … a=sendonly a=content: main a
[17:06:08] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 8: Solution B-2
[17:06:10] <Jonathan Lennox> Lorenzo: looks like your slide scraper got confused
[17:06:15] <Jonathan Lennox> For Slide 7
[17:06:29] <Lorenzo Miniero> missed that, what was wrong?
[17:06:54] <Lorenzo Miniero> the source was a PPT, something may have gone wrong in the conversion
[17:06:58] <Jonathan Lennox> Title of Slide 7 was Solution B-1 — the text it quoted was an informational box at the side
[17:07:17] <Lorenzo Miniero> ok, then I've a script to fix :)
[17:07:26] <Lorenzo Miniero> thanks for noticing
[17:07:33] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> Haven't we all...
[17:07:38] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 9: m=video … a=sendonly a=content: main a
[17:07:51] <Jonathan Lennox> Same here, probably same slide layout
[17:07:55] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 9: Solution B-2
[17:08:00] <Lorenzo Miniero> yep...
[17:08:04] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 10: Interworking with Legacy Endpoints
[17:08:18] <Lorenzo Miniero> will try and fix that later on
[17:08:39] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> Is anyone still believeing in SIP OPTIONS for resource discovery?
[17:08:57] <Jonathan Lennox> Olle: I suggest taking that to the mic
[17:11:31] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 11: Analysis
[17:13:02] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> Thanks Jonathan :-)
[17:13:20] <Lorenzo Miniero> Presentazione interrotta
[17:13:34] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> Chair Mary Barnes trying to find a way forward
[17:13:41] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 3: Options for CLUE message Transport
[17:13:50] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 3: Options for CLUE message Transport
[17:14:10] <Lorenzo Miniero> back to Stephan's slides for open discussion
[17:14:19] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> Keith Drage speaking
[17:15:18] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> "If you want to use SDP syntax for it, God help you" - Keith Drage
[17:15:34] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> ??? at mic (req for help)
[17:15:58] <Tobia Castaldi> wait.. :)
[17:16:14] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> Christer Holmberg speaking
[17:16:59] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> Roni Even speaking
[17:17:13] <Tobia Castaldi> @Olle: It was Andy Hutton speacking
[17:17:18] <Alessandro Amirante> very quick... ;)
[17:17:22] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> Thanks Tobia
[17:17:24] <Tobia Castaldi> :D
[17:17:28] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> Allyn Romanow speaking
[17:18:24] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> Bruno Chatras speaking
[17:19:06] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> RTCweb accepted the SDP syntax - reluctantly - but anyway. Going away from SDP is a pretty large decision.
[17:19:29] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> Roni Even speaking
[17:19:44] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> Jonathan Lennox talking
[17:20:40] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> Keith Drage talking
[17:21:15] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> Fleming ??? talking
[17:21:26] <Jonathan Lennox> Flemming Andreeson
[17:22:02] <Jonathan Lennox> Olle: RTCweb accepted SDP to do the things SDP does. So has CLUE, I think — the question is how to do the things SDP doesn't (currently) do.
[17:22:02] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> Roni Even speaking again
[17:22:18] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> Thanks for the clarification Jonathan
[17:23:21] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> Andrew Allen talking
[17:24:00] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> Partha Ravindran talking
[17:24:24] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> Rob Hansen talking
[17:25:07] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> Jonathan Lennox talking
[17:26:57] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> Christer Holmberg agreeing
[17:28:16] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> Christer now volonteering
[17:28:22] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> Roni Even talking
[17:30:22] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> Andy Hutton (guess) talking
[17:30:31] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> or ?
[17:30:57] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> Roni Even talking
[17:32:04] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> Fleming Andersson talking
[17:32:13] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> Roni responding
[17:32:39] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> Fleming/Roni discussion going on
[17:33:37] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> Rob Hansen talking
[17:34:00] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> Roni Even speaking
[17:34:11] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> Jonathan mumbling from chair
[17:34:13] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> :-)
[17:34:27] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> Mary Barnes (chair) asking questions and speaking
[17:34:32] Mani joins the room
[17:34:34] <Jonathan Lennox> "so don't do that". Not mic-worthy. :-)
[17:34:57] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> Mary cut the line
[17:35:20] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> Mary waving hands and asking question
[17:35:48] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> Bruno Chatras at mic
[17:36:33] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> Fleming talking
[17:37:01] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> Paul Kyziat as chair talking
[17:39:20] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> STOCKHOLM is great at that time! Go for STOCKHOLM!
[17:40:23] Gonzalo leaves the room
[17:40:38] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> Roni talking
[17:41:28] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> — That's all folks. This session closes ---
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[23:40:33] Alessandro Amirante leaves the room
[23:40:33] Tobia Castaldi leaves the room
[23:40:33] Lorenzo Miniero leaves the room
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