[06:51:56] FJB joins the room [06:52:21] danwing joins the room [06:56:45] mlepinski joins the room [06:57:10] Lars joins the room [06:57:46] Philip Matthews joins the room [06:59:58] Dave Thaler joins the room [07:01:16] rababy joins the room [07:01:45] wmhaddad joins the room [07:01:47] anyone in this room [07:01:56] we need a Jabber scribe. [07:02:01] i can relay questions, but can't scribe this time [07:02:13] cheshire joins the room [07:02:18] ok, thanks Lars [07:02:22] Ole Troan joins the room [07:02:23] The audio stream is currently playing classical music ... [07:02:32] you might want to tell people to move up in the rows to make rooms for those coming in [07:02:42] tinnami joins the room [07:03:11] Just wondering if the audio stream is going to switch to the room soon ? [07:03:30] working on audio. [07:03:43] just learned audio guy in the room isn't responsible for the streaming audio. [07:03:54] report to NOC [07:04:27] It is currently playing a feed called "fallback" [07:04:46] kawashimam joins the room [07:05:01] still looking for a jabber scribe [07:05:15] sm joins the room [07:05:48] Lars, you did, or you're asking me to, report the audio issue to the NOC? [07:06:31] suz joins the room [07:06:54] Yoou guys are in Kongresshall A, right? [07:06:56] i did [07:07:02] Yes, kongresshall A. [07:07:10] I reported audio problem to ieft-action, as well. [07:07:19] Music stopped. So sound at al. [07:07:20] wolfgang.beck01 joins the room [07:07:42] Sorry. No sound at all. [07:08:06] momose joins the room [07:08:16] i only get call-on-hold music [07:08:29] Eason joins the room [07:08:56] Dave Thaler is just doing the New Milestone Dates slides right now (slide 8 of the agenda deck). [07:09:28] I am now getting classical music as well on the audio stream. [07:09:28] consensus in the room appears to be bumping dates for many documents from Sep 2009 to Nov 2009. [07:09:37] Desire joins the room [07:09:40] HUI joins the room [07:09:43] now up: Fred Baker, Framework document. [07:10:18] arifumi joins the room [07:10:29] slide 3 [07:11:24] suz leaves the room [07:11:29] slide 5 [07:11:31] HUI leaves the room [07:11:48] tsavo_work@jabber.org/Meebo joins the room [07:11:56] I get sound! [07:12:02] great. [07:12:22] dan: thanks for scribing [07:12:32] I now also have sound! [07:12:48] thanks; glad sound is working. [07:12:51] Simon Perreault joins the room [07:13:01] sound has stopped :-( [07:13:03] donley.chris joins the room [07:13:13] slide 6 [07:13:42] Yup. Sound gone for me too [07:13:57] suz joins the room [07:14:08] the NOC is looking into the sound issues [07:14:39] slide 7 [07:15:20] slide 8 [07:15:46] matthijs joins the room [07:16:17] psavola joins the room [07:17:42] still just "music-on-hold" for me [07:17:53] arifumi leaves the room [07:18:15] audio problems are happening with other sessions, as well (apparea for sure). [07:19:20] now up, Xing Li with draft-ietf-behave-v6v4-xlate-00 [07:22:11] kawamucho joins the room [07:22:18] arifumi joins the room [07:22:52] matthijs leaves the room [07:23:06] matthijs joins the room [07:25:33] haa joins the room [07:25:56] satoru.matsushima joins the room [07:27:00] psavola leaves the room: Replaced by new connection [07:27:01] psavola joins the room [07:27:43] still no audio for me ... [07:28:37] not even muzak, only 404 not found.. [07:28:39] is there a scribe here? [07:29:28] we didn't get a Jabber scribe volunteer, no. [07:29:37] we just finished with Framework questions. [07:29:45] Now up is Xing Li with draft-ietf-behave-v6v4-xlate-00 [07:29:48] slide 3 [07:29:51] FJB leaves the room [07:30:03] FJB joins the room [07:30:23] did he mention how to deal with v6 mobility options? [07:30:24] slide 4 [07:30:35] no, there was no question (or statement) on v6 mobility [07:30:52] thx [07:30:53] [07:31:00] questions on Framework were around the 6 BEHAVE scenarios and about what is meany by 'an IPvX network'. [07:31:00] Atarashi Yoshifumi joins the room [07:31:37] haa leaves the room [07:32:16] haa joins the room [07:32:24] haa leaves the room [07:33:43] slide 4, Dave Thaler at participant mic, asking WG about checksum=0. [07:34:11] ah, sound! [07:34:24] Magnus: discussion so far about UDP=0 is around tunneling. [07:35:08] audio working for everyone else, too? [07:35:48] Now back for me. I had to re-connect. [07:36:26] What presentation/slide are we at? [07:36:35] slide 4 [07:36:35] 4? [07:36:56] questions at the microphone right now, following up Dave Thaler's question at the participant mic regarding UDP checksum=0. [07:37:01] Fred Baker talking right now. [07:37:16] slide 4 of draft-ietf-behave-v6v4-xlate-00 is being displayed. [07:37:34] (that is, of Xing Li's presentation of draft-ietf-behave-v6v4-xlate-00) [07:38:30] just got this from a (non-technical) person from AMS: update on the audio streaming issue: there's something weird with the server and Verilan is still working to get it fixed [07:42:15] Scott.Brim joins the room [07:42:29] HUI joins the room [07:44:52] shinmiyakawa joins the room [07:45:42] slide 9 [07:45:49] slide 10 [07:46:04] 11 [07:46:05] 12 [07:46:31] 13 [07:46:48] 14 [07:46:51] 15 [07:47:21] Desire leaves the room [07:48:10] 16 [07:48:33] 17 [07:48:43] end of prezo. [07:49:03] next up, Marcelo Bagnulo Braun, draft-ietf-behave-v6v4-xlate-stateful-01, stateful translation [07:49:10] roque joins the room [07:49:51] jpc joins the room [07:50:02] slide 1 [07:50:12] slide 2 [07:50:17] (slides don't have slide numbers) [07:50:52] You don't need to type when he reads the slides, but please do jabber interesting discussion or conclusions [07:51:03] will try [07:51:29] we need a standard for slide format :) [07:51:31] discussing if stateful 6/4 NAT needs to keep track of TCP sequence number. [07:51:46] showing NAT64 state machine slide with blue boxes [07:51:54] matthijs leaves the room [07:52:23] matthijs joins the room [07:52:29] audio should be working now, can someone confirm that? [07:52:44] it's working fine here [07:53:59] yep [07:54:08] Marcelo going through detail of TCP state machine proposal for stateful 6/4 translator [07:55:08] Fred: can we destroy state immediately when we see RST? [07:55:46] Marcelo: proposal is that, on receipt of RST, adjust timeout to 4 minutes. If see data packet, it implies host didn't like the RST and we go back to ESTABLISHED state (longer timeout). [07:55:50] Are we on the slide with the state machine diagram? [07:55:51] FJB leaves the room [07:55:53] yes [07:55:58] Thanks, dan! [07:56:02] FJB joins the room [07:57:37] Joel H.: TCP RST attacks mean that a simple RST doesn't mean 'destroy state'. [07:57:59] psavola leaves the room: Replaced by new connection [07:57:59] psavola joins the room [07:58:06] Lars wonders if it is proper for BEHAVE to decide RST behavior when TCPM hasn't reached a conclusion on it. [07:58:29] Marcelo said RST adjusts timeout of state in the NAT. [07:58:39] Lars starts nodding that it sounds good. [07:58:51] matthijs leaves the room [07:58:54] I think it's a good idea to leave it up to the host to decide, not the translator. [07:59:52] matthijs joins the room [08:00:08] psavola leaves the room: Replaced by new connection [08:00:08] psavola joins the room [08:00:13] 3 minute keepalive for bgp [08:00:29] reaction from the room: "BGP through a NAT?" [08:00:38] :-) [08:00:55] and I don't see a problem with BGP here, it talks at least once every 3 minutes. [08:01:06] ok. [08:01:12] want that relayed to the room? [08:01:24] danwing_: I'm in the room :) [08:01:26] psavola leaves the room: Replaced by new connection [08:01:26] psavola joins the room [08:01:34] Who is talking? [08:01:38] Brian Ford. [08:01:41] He didn't say his name. [08:01:48] Dave Thaler is about to harass him for that. [08:02:21] FJB leaves the room [08:02:29] FJB joins the room [08:02:50] Bryan [08:03:05] I'm failing completely with names today. Thanks. [08:04:01] roque leaves the room: Replaced by new connection [08:04:38] were all dns64 related topics moved from monday session to tuesday session btw? [08:04:48] yes [08:04:57] Bruce joins the room [08:05:05] roque joins the room [08:05:46] HUI leaves the room [08:05:48] k [08:06:12] thought there was a topic about dns64 implementation today too [08:06:16] Question for Marcelo: Does he feel a NAT64 SHOULD NOT track sequence numbers, or is this just a possible implementation optimization? [08:06:29] that's my talk, and it was moved to tomorrow [08:06:35] ah cool [08:06:37] thanks [08:06:47] will be there:) [08:07:11] Simon: was that a response to my question? [08:07:16] commenting back on bgp through a nat. The point wasn't "BGP" as much as it is "long-lived TCP sessions that may carry minimal data during time periods." I mentioned BGP because it is kind of the canonical example of that. Maybe I should have said ssh/telnet. [08:07:18] no [08:07:23] *snickers* [08:07:35] jariarkko joins the room [08:08:22] philip: was your question relayed? [08:09:37] No [08:09:46] What slide are we on? [08:09:56] v4v6 pmtud classic [08:09:57] v4v6 pmtud classic [08:10:31] now up, Ilijsch (same prezo) [08:10:33] slide 7 [08:10:40] http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/75/slides/behave-6.pdf [08:12:33] slide 9 [08:12:38] slide 9, "Middle Ground" [08:13:10] Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1 DST) joins the room [08:13:20] psavola leaves the room: Replaced by new connection [08:13:20] psavola joins the room [08:16:05] psavola leaves the room: Replaced by new connection [08:16:05] psavola joins the room [08:17:05] Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1 DST) leaves the room [08:17:33] psavola leaves the room [08:17:48] HUI joins the room [08:19:05] next up, Dave Thaler, "IPv6 Addressing of IPv6/IPv4 Translators", http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/75/slides/behave-8.pdf [08:19:32] Bruce leaves the room [08:19:40] Aleksi Suhonen joins the room [08:20:28] Dave Thaler now talking. [08:20:56] slide 1 [08:20:58] slide 2 [08:22:35] iljitsch joins the room [08:22:48] Bruce joins the room [08:22:53] 3 [08:24:03] Not sure if Marcelo agrees, but I'm thinking that it may be useful to have both a seqnum-tracking and a non-seqnum-tracking state machine for TCP... [08:24:30] == implementor's nightmare [08:24:40] why? [08:24:47] I mean of course: pick the one you like [08:25:10] implementor wants direction. does not like making big choices. [08:25:14] anyhow, I think the philosophical thinking should be that it's the host which "owns" the TCP connection, and it's the host stack that should decide what to do when RST is seen. [08:25:16] (at least for myself) [08:25:30] HUI leaves the room [08:26:14] swmike: yes. but that means that the translator must never clean up state if there's a possibility that the host considers the session still valid = translator must be conservative with session removal [08:26:17] speaking: Fred Baker [08:26:54] Back to slide 2, pointing at slide [08:27:02] now displaying slide 3 again. [08:27:04] also, if you specify both, the easiest one to implement will be the one that's implemented [08:27:21] 4 [08:27:40] Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1 DST) joins the room [08:27:55] my fundamental point there is that "80" doesn't make sense. [08:28:10] fred: talk to you cisco 7600/6500 BU guys. there is makes sense. [08:28:22] your [08:28:31] platform limitation in SUP720 [08:29:08] slide 5 [08:31:13] hm, I don't get Dave's last argument [08:31:40] matthijs leaves the room [08:32:04] Bruce leaves the room [08:32:17] so all this WKP stuff, with ::ffff:0:x:x and ::ffff:x:x, I saw another thing yesterday which wanted to use ::ffff:ffff:x:x, all this use of bit 64-95, shouldn't we start to do some order on that? [08:32:33] matthijs joins the room [08:32:45] bring in IANA? [08:32:57] HUI joins the room [08:33:23] for BEHAVE's well known prefix, the proposals all suggest we want IANA registration of the prefix. [08:33:43] proposals = Dave ID, Marcelo's ID, and Xing's ID. [08:34:02] Iljitsch, which of Dave's arguments? [08:34:14] slide 6 [08:34:25] ::ffff:ffff:0:0 outside ::/3 isn't allowed by RFC 3513 so we don't want that IMO. We have IIDs with unique/local = uinque and group = 1 that are as of yet unused, which could be useful for some specific purpose, don't want to throw that away for no good reason. [08:34:27] FJB leaves the room [08:34:31] slide 6, point #5. [08:34:38] FJB joins the room [08:34:39] dan: where he mentioned the site local issue [08:34:45] 'k. [08:35:21] ::ffff:ffff:0:0 is inside ::/3? [08:35:23] When Dave says "this one", he is pointing at #5. [08:35:35] but ::ffff:ffff:0:0 is outside 2000::/3 [08:35:36] 3 fist bits = 000 [08:36:14] IMO: ipv4 space mapped to ipv6 space is not really pure ipv6 space --> i wouldn't mind it being outside 2000::/3 [08:36:15] depends, could be any:any:any:any:ffff:ffff:0:0 or 0:0:0:0:ffff:ffff:: [08:36:34] oh, sorry. i took the "::" prefix literally. [08:37:01] I should probably have said "ffff:ffff:0:0 interface identifier" [08:37:12] (The shorthand IPv6 syntax is too vague.) [08:37:23] slide 8 [08:37:28] (we need yet another draft on ipv6 syntax?) [08:37:36] jhw joins the room [08:37:44] danwing_: hm, would *:ffff:ffff:x:x have removed the disambiguity? [08:37:56] It would have removed it for me. [08:37:59] or s/*/PREFIX/ [08:38:08] that works, too. [08:38:08] good idea. [08:38:35] I do agree that :: is literal and implies all zeroes, ans * or is better. [08:38:42] and [08:38:56] the slides use something akin to it already anyway [08:39:14] PREFIX::something just doesn,t make sense [08:39:41] simonperreault_: PREFIX:ffff:ffff:x:x does, right? [08:39:42] slide 9 [08:40:02] ah actually on this slide it does make sense because it represents zeros [08:40:24] too tricky for good communication... :( [08:41:56] should PFX::: really be PFX::? [08:42:10] slide 10 [08:42:20] aaargh [08:42:37] Simon Perreault: i understood that there's only 16 bits of compensation [08:42:53] by when comp is after ipv4 there is 32? [08:42:59] (i'm at the dnsop session tho so i'm only reading the slides, not hearing the presentation) [08:43:04] (because it was the other way around for the other) [08:44:18] slide 9 is "go back to this table" [08:44:28] displaying slide 10. [08:45:16] FJB leaves the room [08:45:26] FJB joins the room [08:48:15] matthijs leaves the room [08:48:21] jhw leaves the room [08:49:11] matthijs joins the room [08:49:57] jhw joins the room [08:50:56] now up, Xing Li, http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/75/slides/behave-11.pdf [08:50:57] slide 3 [08:52:02] 4 [08:52:38] wolfgang.beck01 leaves the room [08:52:47] yanick.pouffary joins the room [08:54:47] Olle E. Johansson, Sollentuna, Sweden (GMT+1 DST) leaves the room [08:54:48] 5 [08:54:59] wolfgang.beck01 joins the room [08:55:22] 6 [08:56:13] 7 [08:56:58] 8 [08:57:37] 9 [08:58:23] 10 [08:59:19] 11 [08:59:31] Staffan Kerker joins the room [08:59:45] Bruce joins the room [09:00:28] 12 [09:00:45] 13 [09:00:49] Scott.Brim leaves the room [09:01:00] 14 [09:01:06] 15 [09:01:23] 16 [09:01:32] jasso1 joins the room [09:01:36] Scott.Brim joins the room [09:01:59] 17 [09:02:03] 18 [09:02:15] question from Marcelo: [09:02:31] Scott.Brim leaves the room [09:02:40] please explain: host will get IPv4 address,and will have to construct IPv6 address. [09:02:49] wmhaddad leaves the room [09:02:53] Question: the IPv4 address of an IPv6 host. [09:03:04] Xing: yes [09:05:23] displaying slide 16 [09:05:42] Staffan Kerker leaves the room [09:06:24] matthijs leaves the room [09:06:45] displaying slide 11 [09:08:23] matthijs joins the room [09:10:38] Hui Deng, with host-based IPv6 translation, http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/75/slides/behave-9.pdf [09:10:51] Dan skipped his presentation. [09:13:10] currently on slide 6. [09:13:38] slide 7 [09:13:50] 8 [09:14:41] 11 [09:15:18] 12 [09:15:28] 13 [09:15:38] 14 [09:16:23] 15 [09:16:30] 16 [09:17:11] Philip Matthews leaves the room [09:17:24] matthijs leaves the room [09:17:37] 17 [09:17:38] iljitsch leaves the room [09:19:12] Stuart Cheshire: why all-0 or all-1 for private/public IPv4 address? [09:19:33] Hui: helps determine when to do translation [09:19:54] Stuart: questioning benefit of the extra bits. [09:20:13] Hui: (sorry, I can't summarize) [09:20:33] 20 [09:20:54] sm leaves the room [09:21:07] 21 [09:21:54] 22 [09:21:59] 23 [09:22:35] 24 [09:22:41] FJB leaves the room [09:22:50] FJB joins the room [09:22:58] 25 [09:23:14] jasso1 leaves the room [09:23:38] 26 [09:23:52] "Discussion on IPv6 host based Translation Time/Date: 15:10-16:10 Thursday afternoon Location: Lilla Teatern" [09:25:14] Eason leaves the room [09:25:17] http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/75/slides/behave-1.pdf [09:25:26] speaking: Teemu Savolainen [09:25:56] slide 2 [09:26:02] 3 [09:26:29] we will be running about 10 minutes after our scheduled 11:30am cut-off. 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