[04:49:50] aboba joins the room [04:56:37] mlm.michael.miller joins the room [04:57:03] mlm.michael.miller leaves the room [04:57:15] Cullen joins the room [04:57:22] mlm.michael.miller joins the room [05:00:42] wolfgang.beck01 joins the room [05:05:35] finlayson joins the room [05:05:54] Jonathan Lennox joins the room [05:06:04] I am Jabber Scribe [05:06:12] Thanks Jonathan [05:07:12] Do you have WebEx, or do I need to relay which slide we're on? [05:07:32] I don't think we have webex for this meeting do we? [05:07:50] Do we not? I'll relay then [05:08:05] Currently on chairs slides, Agenda [05:08:16] Document Status [05:08:16] Not a real bid deal, I cam generally easilly figure out what slide we are on [05:08:19] Ok [05:08:25] If you have a question let me know [05:08:38] Lars joins the room [05:08:47] Will do and greatly appreciate that. [05:11:32] suzukisn joins the room [05:14:28] Kepeng Li joins the room [05:19:13] EKR joins the room [05:20:32] pengbin joins the room [05:20:54] pengbin leaves the room [05:21:14] Linyi Tian joins the room [05:21:50] where can i get the slides for chair presentation? [05:23:03] Under https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/79/materials.html#wg-avt , specifically http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/79/slides/avt-0.pdf [05:23:21] thanks a lot [05:24:16] tterribe@jabber.org joins the room [05:30:58] roni_even joins the room [05:32:08] we will have draft-feher-avt-approx-auth-srtp discussed later (Cullen and EKR please help) [05:32:22] That's why I'm here. [05:32:31] Dont know how much we can do over jabber, tho [05:32:43] I may well end up standing at the mic with my laptop [05:32:59] So, Cullen and I could skype conf in if that would be useful. [05:35:11] Potentially [05:35:18] I have Skype on my laptop [05:36:45] finlayson leaves the room [05:36:57] It sounds like the threat model magnus is considering is one where address forgery is practical but on-path attack is not. [05:36:59] Correct? [05:37:02] That seems plausible. [05:41:32] What is the difference between cookie and token? [05:41:53] Good question. [05:42:52] Chair asked whether the main concern is the security issue and should be addressed in security section [05:43:35] Linyi: do you want that taken to the mic? [05:43:35] Could you channel: "I think this is a betteer basis for going forward than the the current WG draft." We should take this [05:44:21] thanks [05:44:37] does Cullen means this one should replace the existing WG draft? [05:44:44] yes [05:45:02] replace which one? [05:46:24] finlayson joins the room [05:46:41] is it draft-ietf-avt-ports-for-ucast-mcast-rtp-02? [05:47:27] Please proxy: trusting source addresses is not part of any Internet threat model I'm aware of. I'd be interested in hearing from the security area about what they think of that claim. [05:48:10] i agree the first sentence said by EKR [05:50:48] Hi, Cullen, is that draft-ietf-avt-ports-for-ucast-mcast-rtp-02 should be replaced by this one being discussed? [05:51:00] yes prots-for-ucast [05:51:11] thanks, roni:) [05:51:30] yes - sorry - was off on a violent IM argument about something else [05:51:48] Cullen leaves the room [05:52:01] Cullen joins the room [05:52:07] thanks:) [05:53:44] ECN now [05:55:03] richard joins the room [05:55:13] RFC 6051 is published, btw. :-) [05:55:19] sorry, just joining -- where are we in the agenda? [05:55:29] ECN [05:58:07] is there any issue if we remove the Nonce? [05:58:21] or do we leave a hole there if it is not addressed in this draft? [05:58:55] magnus joins the room [05:59:31] Colin's argument is that any cheating you can do without a Nonce you can do just as easily with a Nonce by claiming not to support ECN at all [06:00:26] Or not support the ECN Nonce function unless the service requires support so you can't avoid it all. [06:03:05] Magnus: I'm listening to delayed media but having thoughth abotu this [06:03:07] works for me [06:03:43] danwing joins the room [06:03:53] richard leaves the room [06:06:56] since this is just the notification mechanism, why it looks so complex? [06:08:41] It is the combination of ECN and RTP that makes it fairly complex. RTP is most of the reason. [06:10:34] wasn't cullen on the iesg then? [06:10:42] Yes, and I [06:17:02] As punishment for the IESG screwing this up, I suggest you force previous IESG members to fix it [06:17:18] hey, we didn't think that anyone would actually be *using* ice... [06:17:20] Peterson and Jennings seem to have some free time. [06:18:05] Now it is retransmission-supression-rtp [06:29:12] wolfgang.beck01 leaves the room [06:29:32] wolfgang.beck01 joins the room [06:30:25] Kepeng Li leaves the room: Computer went to sleep [06:31:22] RjS joins the room [06:31:54] finlayson leaves the room [06:39:58] RjS leaves the room [06:41:55] Now starting the H.241 parameter for H.264 [06:47:40] Linyi Tian leaves the room [06:51:37] wolfgang.beck01 leaves the room [06:51:55] Starting Approx Auth [06:52:14] I hope that Jonathan's question gets answered on the list [06:53:16] Cullen/EKR — did you want me to bring up a Skype conference? [06:53:34] it is 10 minutes [06:53:39] With 5 minutes, is it worth it? [06:54:46] fluffy? [06:55:22] we need to discuss if this is a problem to address before discussing the solutio [06:55:26] n [06:55:39] well, I think this is going to take a bunch more discution on the list [06:55:48] That sounds like a topic for the media guys. I only know about crypto :) [06:56:07] roni_even: By the way, I spoke to Jean-Marc Valin about the CELT draft. [06:56:20] the clain is that there are bit errors that an be fixed [06:56:34] He had no idea how that was even made a WG item. [06:56:48] (none of this is mean to be taken to mic) [06:56:55] Ok [06:57:06] I will try to talk with him [06:57:23] I don't think that is something we want to pursue (at this time). [06:57:55] So I don't know about the crypto but for many codecs, this would not help. there might be codecs wher this did help but I';d want to see that [06:58:19] And it looks like the ex transport AD just said this did not run on real networks [06:58:21] Cullen: let me know if any comments should be relayed [06:58:27] will do - thanks [06:59:03] They might want to go read http://www.cs.ucl.ac.uk/staff/m.handley/papers/only-just-works.pdf [06:59:33] This sounds like a research paper, then. [06:59:38] Not a standards proposal. [07:00:18] ekr: yes. (the bottom of his slides make it clear that this comes out of a EU-sponsored project) [07:00:28] No, I mean that if his point is to convince people this is a good idea, this does not seem like a task for an RFC. [07:01:06] Well his basic position of let me show the benefits, I sort of agree with: I'm look forward to reading stuff but I'd certainly be agains taking on a WG draft until it was clear it could help [07:01:52] I am fine with Experimental work. [07:02:23] suzukisn leaves the room [07:02:24] danwing leaves the room [07:02:35] tterribe@jabber.org leaves the room [07:05:43] roni_even leaves the room [07:06:21] Lars leaves the room [07:06:25] magnus leaves the room: I'm happy Miranda IM user. Get it at http://miranda-im.org/. 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