IETF
apparea
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Monday, 5 November 2012< ^ >
stpeter has set the subject to: IETF Applications Area
Room Configuration

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[13:53:59] <tonyhansen> the audio bridge does not appear to be working
or at least, the stream pointed to by http://ietf85streaming.dnsalias.net/ietf/ietf854.m3u is pointing in turn to the 404-producing http://nagasaki.bogus.com:8000/stream04
[13:54:08] <julian> indeed
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[13:57:49] <sal> we are working on that
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[14:01:16] <Eliot Lear> i can hear
[14:01:30] <sal> yes, it started automatically at 9:00
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[14:06:37] <netwerkeddude> agenda bashing
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[14:08:55] <netwerkeddude> mnot to be here to discuss json-pointer and json-patch
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[14:09:17] <netwerkeddude> so jumping to paul jones discussing webfinger
[14:10:00] <netwerkeddude> slide 1 webfinger overview
[14:11:03] <netwerkeddude> slide 2
[14:11:34] <netwerkeddude> a webfinger jason-encoded response
[14:11:36] <netwerkeddude> slide 3
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[14:13:28] <netwerkeddude> slide 4
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[14:14:21] <netwerkeddude> note that last bullet sez webfinger mandates use of CORS (cross origin resource sharing)
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[14:16:17] <netwerkeddude> carsten B at mic: is this the doc the describes how to xlate links to json ?
[14:16:37] <netwerkeddude> cochair: no
[14:17:08] <netwerkeddude> paul jones (pj): no, this is just a set of links that pertains to "me"
[14:17:20] stpeter joins the room
[14:17:32] <netwerkeddude> carsten b (cb): trying to find out what this has to do with 5988
[14:17:40] <netwerkeddude> pj: not sure, lets take offline
[14:17:53] <netwerkeddude> hannes tschofenig (ht) at mic
[14:18:24] <julian> (closer to the mike, please)
[14:18:33] <Eliot Lear> yes, closer to the mic, please
[14:19:08] <fenton> volume in-room is about right so it will be hard to get people to speak up.
[14:19:22] <netwerkeddude> ht: if email addr is same as accnt id, there's misconception that using webfinger can get you "anywhere/thing", but there's lots of email-like acnt ids floating about eg in sip, and they might not work this way, and so knowing someone's "email addr" attemting deref may not get properly WF deref'd
[14:21:02] Andrew Sullivan joins the room
[14:21:27] <netwerkeddude> ht: still think this is poor proposal because when used in conjunction with other ident mgmt prots this doesn't nec follow ---- clarification: in hotspot 2, the username thing is hidden from the relying party on purpose, but this approach assumes it is revealed to RPs, and WF thus flies in face of various approaches assumptions
[14:22:19] <netwerkeddude> john klensin(jk) at mic: agrees with HT, calling the identifier an "email address" gets u in world of woe because they may not be such -- be very clear that they are just ids that happen to have an email-like syntax
[14:22:38] <julian> Sal's volume level is right
[14:22:56] <Eliot Lear> yeah, the problem is the audience mic
[14:23:01] <netwerkeddude> jk: need to figure this out before last call or will hit difficulties
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[14:24:14] <netwerkeddude> jk: seems there isn't WG consensus on this, and just that there's four or five folks talking to themselves -- they shud be sensitive to other opinions
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[14:26:16] <netwerkeddude> john bradley (jb): does think the WF draft has made effort to differentiatie the email like id from email addresses; also there's nothing that actually reqs the local part to be "meaningful", the clarifying that this is only email addr syntax is sort of a UI aspect
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[14:27:41] <netwerkeddude> pete resnick (pr): doesn't understand the concerns at mic, seems this solves various problems, is useful to some set of folks, dont understand the issues with the prot itself, would like folks to comment on what the issues actually are from tech perspec
[14:28:05] <Eliot Lear> just lost sound
[14:28:27] <hardie@jabber.psg.com> Hi Eliot
[14:28:28] <Eliot Lear> it's back but can barely hear dave
[14:28:50] <Eliot Lear> heard him for a moment
[14:29:01] <netwerkeddude> dave crocker (dc): seems that in terms of acnt: scheme, they've factored it out reasonably; in terms of this debate, this sort occurs in WGs and isn't unusual
[14:29:09] <dcrocker> barely hearing me is usually considered a feature, not a bug.
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[14:29:31] <Eliot Lear> now lots of white noise (wrong gain?)
[14:29:39] <hardie@jabber.psg.com> Just a sec
[14:29:59] <stpeter> better?
[14:30:01] <hardie@jabber.psg.com> Did him changing mics help?
[14:30:16] <Eliot Lear> yay!
[14:30:51] <dcrocker> (so, the back mic needs to be fixed by ops folk.)
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[14:31:17] <netwerkeddude> ht: so goog is saying on web that this is a way to make one's email address "more valuable", and also the doc talks about the id mgmt use cases [implies they are email addrs?], and don't thing the pseduonym stuff as outlined doesn't really work
[14:31:49] <netwerkeddude> ht: u have to have a specific acnt id for this to really work -- so u need to have particular input data and it isn't explained well in the doc
[14:32:19] <netwerkeddude> jk: hopes that the UI stuff isn't a "part" of the accnt: stuff
[14:33:11] <netwerkeddude> jk: since this is WG doc, presume there's folks signed up to this topic and know the issues, but wider bunch in this room who aren't
[14:33:14] <Andrew Sullivan> jk's meta-point about WG operation is, AFAICT, the reason the IETF had working groups in the first place, no?
[14:33:29] <resnick> On the process point John brings up: That is really a chair responsibility to make sure that broader issues get summarized and get reasonable review.
[14:33:56] <hildjj> note: in the −02 draft, section 4.1 does make some assuptions that email address = acct:
[14:34:15] <resnick> The detail discussion will also need to go on, and that's fine (I don't think jck disagrees with that).
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[14:34:44] <netwerkeddude> ? @mic: if u have a anon id, and it is used in abuse reporting, there could be confusion (?)
[14:34:54] <netwerkeddude> mk: please pose your ques to list
[14:35:09] <barryleiba> ? == Alessandro Vesely
[14:35:23] <netwerkeddude> pj: "webfinger update" slide
[14:36:05] <barryleiba> If no one has yet sent a trouble report about the rear mic, I will do so now.
[14:36:22] <Eliot Lear> barry it's working now
[14:36:35] <hardie@jabber.psg.com> No, the front mic is working; we had people change mic lines
[14:36:41] <hardie@jabber.psg.com> The back mic is still out
[14:36:43] <Eliot Lear> ahhhh
[14:37:17] <netwerkeddude> next slide
[14:37:19] <netwerkeddude> next slide
[14:37:36] <netwerkeddude> has "areas of debate" as 1st item
[14:37:43] <barryleiba> report sent
[14:41:03] <netwerkeddude> pj preso over
[14:41:20] <netwerkeddude> Mike jones: preso on thoughts on remaining discovery issues
[14:41:34] <netwerkeddude> [ disco == discovery ]
[14:41:47] <netwerkeddude> slide 1 problem of hosted domains
[14:43:08] <netwerkeddude> eg a domain may have email service and such, but not be running a web server and thus there's no /.well-known to deref using http
[14:43:14] <netwerkeddude> 2nd slide
[14:43:53] <netwerkeddude> hosted domain options
[14:43:58] <hildjj> we should get WHATWG to give us a JavaScript API for making good DNS queries.
[14:44:35] <hildjj> (we'll need CORS for DNS, of course)
[14:45:18] <netwerkeddude> SRV records, domain name prefix, or, well, can't solve this
[14:45:50] <netwerkeddude> jk @mic: the ietf needs to org committee against dns abuse
[14:45:56] Ken Murchison leaves the room
[14:47:20] <netwerkeddude> jk: your negatives are weird, the # of hosts that support WF is small, if it is perceived as useful, then they could use say a SRV approch for exmpl. these little tricks for dns prefixes, they don't work well for various reasons, and so if in ietf, argue for doing it right
[14:48:01] <netwerkeddude> mj: the point abt many clients can't use it, most deplyed tools don't allow RPs to query dns directly, but do facilitate use of https
[14:48:27] <netwerkeddude> jk: have heard args in past that dns resolvers cant resolv these prefixes
[14:49:02] <netwerkeddude> jk: if the goal here is to come up with some kludge in short term, that's diff goal from coming up with something that we really will use in long term
[14:49:24] <netwerkeddude> dc: thinking of form committee against dns purists
[14:49:51] <netwerkeddude> dc: u may have made mistake on slide wrt prefix, but you don't really mean that, minor point
[14:50:13] <netwerkeddude> dc: idea u have two diff mechs, pick one
[14:51:45] <netwerkeddude> dc: have deadly embrace prob
[14:52:11] <netwerkeddude> mj: the mic questions have preempted my following slides -- I'm not proposing both mechs, see following slides
[14:53:00] <netwerkeddude> joe hildbrand (jh): this stuff needs analysis cuz there's sec issues, but likes the "we don't need to solve this" option
[14:53:26] <dcrocker> meta-comment about webfinger: the nature and extent of the issues and comments being generated now suggest to me that this ought to have been (and perhaps still should be) a distinct working group, to get extended, focused discussion.
[14:54:56] <tonyhansen> what slide of which deck are we on ?
[14:54:56] <netwerkeddude> jb: one thing this will be used for is openid connect; w/o security, this becomes big phishing oppty; so w/o dnssec, srv thing bad;
[14:55:14] <resnick> "Solution Chosen by OpenID Connect"
[14:55:15] <netwerkeddude> back to mj preso: solution chosen by openid connect
[14:55:22] <netwerkeddude> larry masinter (lm) a
[14:55:39] <netwerkeddude> @ mic: wouldn't need tls srv at that dns name?
[14:55:53] <tonyhansen> thx
[14:56:04] <netwerkeddude> mj: prob trying to solve is that for logistical reasons one cant support .well-known at that domain
[14:56:24] <netwerkeddude> mj: slide disco using non-default ports
[14:56:43] <netwerkeddude> slide: good progress on webfinger (WF)
[14:57:19] <netwerkeddude> slide: finishing WF in timely manner
[14:58:51] <netwerkeddude> pr @ mic: what if we go fwd with trying various approaches and then we change the spec?
[14:59:11] <netwerkeddude> mj: once sorta baked then advocate for testing
[14:59:23] <netwerkeddude> pr: u shud advoc for testing even when moving target
[14:59:31] <netwerkeddude> mj: we don't disagree
[14:59:51] cw-ietf leaves the room
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[14:59:58] <netwerkeddude> chairs: finnishing up WFpalooza here in this meeting, on to next topics
[15:00:34] Ken Murchison joins the room
[15:00:44] <netwerkeddude> is StPeter in room: say something about accnt: scheme? no? Savatore will: ok, going to WG last call soon
[15:01:06] <netwerkeddude> Cyrus Daboo preso on Aggregated Service Discovery
[15:01:22] <netwerkeddude> cyrus daboo (cd): slide 1 prob stmt
[15:02:28] <netwerkeddude> presently, overall disco mechs are done differently in context of various app protocols, and then there's proprietary mechs that do multi-prot disco & config
[15:02:39] <netwerkeddude> slide 2 the probs cont'd
[15:03:24] <netwerkeddude> deployers have been picking proprietary means over stdzd means for various reasons (eg convenience)
[15:03:38] <netwerkeddude> so the stdzd mech(s) should be done better
[15:03:57] <netwerkeddude> slide 3 requirements
[15:04:30] Hugo Salgado joins the room
[15:04:45] <resnick> It now occurs to me that Cyrus has to stop using the term "service discovery". It means something very different to most IETF people.
[15:05:04] <netwerkeddude> slide reqs #2
[15:05:52] <netwerkeddude> slide: proposed soln
[15:06:06] <netwerkeddude> draft-daboo-aggregated-service-discovery
[15:06:14] <netwerkeddude> slide: xml document format
[15:06:20] james.manger leaves the room
[15:06:35] <hildjj> resnick: ideas for other words?
[15:06:48] <resnick> Yeah....thinking about that. :-//
[15:07:27] <netwerkeddude> slide: other solns?
[15:07:33] <netwerkeddude> eg related work :)
[15:07:56] <hildjj> configuration discovery? deployment summary?
[15:08:12] <netwerkeddude> WF disco is similar -- need to discuss
[15:08:58] <netwerkeddude> and there's also DNS-SD, see MDNSext bof later this week
[15:09:07] <netwerkeddude> other approaches?
[15:09:31] <resnick> "User service account discovery"?
[15:09:50] <netwerkeddude> mk: ok, mics open -- shud this be in appsarewg or in a diff wg?
[15:10:01] Ken Murchison leaves the room
[15:10:21] <netwerkeddude> barry leiba (bl): imap over pop3 seems intstg tunneling concept -- if we do this, its own wg is way to do it
[15:12:04] <netwerkeddude> keith moore(km): this has been looked at before, in 90s there was uri resolution to metadata, urns started this thinking, so this is all sounding familiar, can't remember the name of the RFC, it uses NAPTR records, not saying use this, but look at it and be aware of it
[15:12:12] <netwerkeddude> [ is he referring to DDDS ? ]
[15:12:40] <netwerkeddude> jk: also getting deja-vu; this sounds like IMSP v3 --- what's diff with it ?
[15:13:02] <netwerkeddude> cd: i'm one of few folks who've impld imsp and acap -- those were solns for diff probs
[15:14:07] <netwerkeddude> this is much more of a simple static bootstrap mech, need to accomodate constrained devices, needs to be simple
[15:14:34] <netwerkeddude> jk: agree; if we understand the mistakes of the prior work and have approaches to correct them, this could be good
[15:14:53] <netwerkeddude> jh: was going to hold naptr up as example to avoid
[15:15:14] <netwerkeddude> jh (joe h): seems cyrus on right track
[15:15:22] <netwerkeddude> mk: i think we have a bof chair :)
[15:17:16] <netwerkeddude> dc: thinks this is well described but not new; [summarizes discussion ] ; since have existence proof of propriety solns, this is a do-able thing.
[15:17:56] Randall Gellens joins the room
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[15:18:21] <netwerkeddude> john levine (jl): we've had same discussion in WEIRDS as we did with WF this morn; but cyrus' disco is more general; synergy between them ?
[15:18:41] <netwerkeddude> mk: hum for interest to work on this?
[15:18:47] <netwerkeddude> hum: reasonably strong
[15:19:02] <netwerkeddude> mk: who needs to impl this for their purposes?
[15:19:27] <dcrocker> (meta-suggestion: json vs. xml -- it could be helpful to try to codify the benefits and drawbacks in preferences about json and xml. At the moment, it appears that the choice is mostly a matter of wg participant preference, which probably means that we have different specs making different choices, thereby moving towards having all systems having to implement both engines.)
[15:19:47] <netwerkeddude> andrew sullivan (as) @ mic: so this is similar to props that weren't impl'd, and so this is similar, so not sure how will get anywhere with this
[15:19:54] lef.jpn joins the room
[15:20:52] <hildjj> (drcrocker: starting point: http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/200x/2006/12/21/JSON)
[15:20:53] <netwerkeddude> jk: going to sound optimistic for change; imsp was moderately widely impl'd, ACAP had very few impls, can we avoid both of those traps? worth exploring
[15:21:27] <netwerkeddude> randal gellens (rg): the fact we have these prior attempts helps us in learning what we really need
[15:21:36] <netwerkeddude> mk: set up BoF for March meeting
[15:22:07] <netwerkeddude> new preso: draft-goix-appsawg-enum-acct-
[15:22:19] <netwerkeddude> slide 1: enum acct uri registration
[15:22:30] Ken Murchison joins the room
[15:22:42] <netwerkeddude> slide2 : use cases improvmt
[15:23:37] <netwerkeddude> slide 3: security sectn improvmts
[15:23:53] <hildjj> (drcrocker: rule of thumb: if it's data, JSON. If it's a document, HTML. if you can't tell, it *might* be XML, or you might have defined the problem poorly.)
[15:25:55] hildjj leaves the room
[15:26:06] <netwerkeddude> slide 4: next steps
[15:26:18] <netwerkeddude> mk: hum for suggestions or need discussion?
[15:27:04] <netwerkeddude> jk @mic: if this is going to be done , appsareawg is ok place to do cuz enum wg is closed; like to see input from enum experts into the questions surrounding this
[15:27:52] <netwerkeddude> peter koch (pk): bernie is the design expert for enum review; have you talked to the RAI ADs ? perhaps that's more approp area?
[15:28:15] <netwerkeddude> presenter(?): brought here cuz the WF stuff is here
[15:28:33] <netwerkeddude> BL: enum shud have been in apps anyway, so brought here
[15:28:50] hildjj joins the room
[15:29:10] <netwerkeddude> pk: there's some history wrt enum that factors into this
[15:29:58] <netwerkeddude> pk: is referring to stuf that was in ENUM that didn't make it to RFC, those shud be reviewed
[15:30:20] cyrusdaboo leaves the room
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[15:31:43] <netwerkeddude> salvatore: [ missed this exchange :( ]
[15:31:59] <netwerkeddude> mk: Now in AppsArea portion of meeting
[15:32:53] <netwerkeddude> bl: discussion wrt the mixing of the apps area + appsareaWG discussions on mailing lists -- some folks thinks its overwhelming
[15:33:35] <netwerkeddude> dc: havving one list have detailed tech disc plus newsy (appsarea) disc -- can make things difficult
[15:33:56] <netwerkeddude> mk: perhaps detailed tech discs shud be on sep lists
[15:34:20] <netwerkeddude> jk: use design teams; that said, perhyaps the lists shud be sep'd
[15:34:41] <netwerkeddude> jk: that said detailed disc can be done off list and the summarized
[15:35:25] <netwerkeddude> jh: detailed tech disc perhaps call for sep WG
[15:35:45] <netwerkeddude> stpete: this is the way of lists, deal
[15:36:09] <netwerkeddude> bl: chair shud suggest discussios off list
[15:36:18] <netwerkeddude> jh: but then non public!!
[15:36:25] <netwerkeddude> bl: ways to deal with that
[15:36:37] <netwerkeddude> paulh: agrees with joe (jh)
[15:37:34] <netwerkeddude> paulh: have done design teams; when things contentious might not work way, loose valuable input
[15:38:38] <netwerkeddude> dc: if the mailing list was a sep WG this woldn't be an issue; issue is this mixed-use email list;
[15:39:16] <netwerkeddude> dc: create a 2nd list, the apps detail list, can then say -- take it to the detail list
[15:39:47] <netwerkeddude> jh: don't mind this, but in WF case, let's form a WG and be done with this
[15:40:03] Scott Hollenbeck leaves the room
[15:40:15] <SM> It's going to cause cross-list posting
[15:40:41] <stpeter> SM: yep
[15:42:06] <netwerkeddude> km: this is a too many folks in room prob; thus shud have sep topic lists; forming diff WG not nec soln; things take long time to formally get started; thus spinning up sep mailing list is expedient approach
[15:43:25] <netwerkeddude> as: setting up sep list is not panacea ---- folks could use self-tagging of subject
[15:44:44] <netwerkeddude> bl: [ summarizing ] there's a couple discussions on apps list json & WF, perhaps shud be WGs, doesn't have to be slow, RAI can do it quickly,
[15:45:02] <netwerkeddude> bl: so WF we're alomst done, wg doesn't make sense
[15:45:25] <netwerkeddude> bl: with the json docs, shud we creating a json wg where we've already essentially had the bof ??
[15:45:57] fenton leaves the room
[15:46:04] <netwerkeddude> cd @mic: folsk working on ical and ? representations in json; would be good if there was a json directorate to provide review
[15:46:15] <netwerkeddude> cd: maybe this wg could do that?
[15:46:39] Ken Murchison leaves the room
[15:46:49] <SM> NomCom is investigating whether directorates are secret-drinking clubs :-)
[15:47:40] <stpeter> and we've been killing off directorates (XML, LDAP, etc.)
[15:47:42] <netwerkeddude> leif johannson (lj): 2nds that thot; in scim having json issues -- could use such review -- if we had json WG perhaps could help with coord; having some sort of directorate could be useful; but have mixed results with doing general architecture in ietf; have to be careful
[15:48:02] <netwerkeddude> jh: might want to have json directorte; diff than having json WG
[15:48:38] <netwerkeddude> lm: doing a guidelines for using json in ietf protocols doc might be a good idea
[15:49:35] <netwerkeddude> lm: there's an xml guidelines doc (?) ---- maybe need guidelins on doing xml vs json too ?
[15:49:48] <netwerkeddude> bl: moving on -- back to meeting agenda
[15:50:25] <netwerkeddude> heather flanagan: doing an RFC format bof this meeting on wed afternoon
[15:50:33] <Randall Gellens> A document with guidelines for JSON and especially JSON vs XML would be very useful
[15:50:43] <julian> ah, we should use a JSON based format for RFCs
[15:50:50] <netwerkeddude> stpete: there's a video codec bof this afternoon
[15:52:05] fenton joins the room
[15:52:28] <netwerkeddude> yoav: http authn bof wed after lunch;
[15:53:10] <netwerkeddude> stuart cheshire: bof on multicast stuff tue afternoon 1500h
[15:53:29] <netwerkeddude> paul hoffman: cert trans bof
[15:55:26] <netwerkeddude> jhod: webpki bof this afternoon in 2nd aftn slot after 1500h
[15:56:33] <netwerkeddude> kathleen moriairy: SACM bof this afternoon
[15:56:43] <netwerkeddude> [ end of bof annoujcements ]
[15:56:54] <sftcd> sacm is tuesday 0900
[15:57:07] <netwerkeddude> andy newton: json content rules draft -- json schema proposal of sorts
[15:57:27] <netwerkeddude> slide 1 - conciseness for human consumption
[15:57:53] <netwerkeddude> json-like; is just an opinion he has; inspired by relax-ng ?
[15:58:02] <netwerkeddude> slide 2: illustration
[15:58:31] <netwerkeddude> slide 3: six rule types
[15:58:46] <netwerkeddude> slide 4: feedback so far
[15:59:42] <netwerkeddude> looking for more feedback, needs more work
[16:00:53] <netwerkeddude> john levine (jl) : question, what prob u trying to solve?
[16:01:25] <netwerkeddude> andy newton (an): trying to have simple alternative to json schema (??? notsure got that right)
[16:01:42] <stpeter> Tim Draegen
[16:01:51] <netwerkeddude> next preso: tim draegon: DMARC
[16:02:00] <netwerkeddude> slide 1 : prob with email
[16:02:38] <netwerkeddude> see DMARC.org
[16:02:41] <stpeter> s/draegon/draegen/ (for the record)
[16:02:45] <netwerkeddude> thx
[16:02:55] netwerkeddude <- fat fingers
[16:02:57] <stpeter> thanks to netwerkeddude for all the typing :)
[16:03:37] <Zash> haha
[16:03:47] <netwerkeddude> [ netwerkeddude == =JeffH fyi/fwiw ]
[16:03:59] stpeter waves to Zash
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[16:04:36] <Zash> Hi stpeter :)
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[16:05:36] <netwerkeddude> slide 2: lessons learned from SPF & DKIM
[16:07:06] <netwerkeddude> slide3: what DMARC brings
[16:08:56] <netwerkeddude> DMARC leverages using SPF and DKIM in conjunction; overlay, feedback, policy
[16:09:13] <netwerkeddude> slide 4: DMARC meets "lessons learned"
[16:09:59] <netwerkeddude> slide5: DMARC today & future
[16:12:07] <netwerkeddude> pr @mic: why make this RFC? why not working in ietf now?
[16:12:32] <netwerkeddude> dc: successuful workin ietf begins elsewhere, then do ietf
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[16:13:23] <netwerkeddude> pr: becoming increasingly disillusioned with that approach --- people bring stuff mostly complete to ietf, and then we're in horrible tail of bikeshedding; and we have process nonsense at end;
[16:13:29] Ken Murchison joins the room
[16:13:42] <hardie@jabber.psg.com> So, there are two more preentations on the list
[16:13:47] <netwerkeddude> pr: the later you wait, the more of that there will be; if you can avoid bringing to ietf, more power to you
[16:14:09] <netwerkeddude> td: lots folks wnat RFC before will deploy
[16:14:43] <netwerkeddude> ph: so doing stds track RFC is diff than an indep submission RFC, and the latter may be easier and get you what you want
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[16:15:04] <netwerkeddude> jh: question? ???
[16:15:17] <netwerkeddude> dc: these are std ietf questions
[16:15:27] <netwerkeddude> jh: trying to help tim
[16:15:43] <netwerkeddude> mk: next preso ---- brian carpenter on
[16:15:58] <netwerkeddude> Representing IPv6 Zone Idnetifiers in URIs
[16:16:04] <netwerkeddude> slide 1: motivation
[16:17:08] <barryleiba> JH question above: Do you think you need cross-area review and expertise for this (things such as security, i18n, etc)?
[16:18:11] <netwerkeddude> slide: agreed so far
[16:20:22] <hildjj> did they talk about interfaces named 25en0 and the confusion this approach causes?
[16:20:22] <tonyhansen> someone is speaking without the mike
[16:20:36] <barryleiba> Hm, we hear the mic well in the room.
[16:20:49] <barryleiba> Brian Carpenter is speaking on the lapel mic.
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[16:21:08] <tonyhansen> clarification: someone asked a question without the mike, to which the speaker responded "yes"
[16:21:12] <hildjj> and did they consider rev'ing 4007 to include a different separator, like # ?
[16:21:25] <hildjj> (not #, that won't work)
[16:22:30] <netwerkeddude> slide: pending
[16:22:40] <netwerkeddude> eg sign off from URI@ list
[16:22:51] <hildjj> or, you could just say that inside [], % is ok, since you don't need it for escaping.
[16:22:54] <netwerkeddude> ad has asked for review from PR
[16:23:00] <netwerkeddude> Ietf last call
[16:23:25] <netwerkeddude> PR: am holding off on voicing for other folks to get their thoughts in
[16:23:40] <netwerkeddude> ted hardie (th): need to reconcile with rfc4407
[16:23:49] <netwerkeddude> prob needs to update 4407
[16:23:52] <barryleiba> 4007
[16:23:58] <julian> hildjj: I don't think you can say that
[16:24:04] <netwerkeddude> brian carpenter(bc) : we're aware
[16:24:05] <hildjj> julian: they already did for :
[16:24:16] <julian> ":" is different...
[16:24:49] <hildjj> julian: i defer to your expertise, but am interested (offline) in understanding why.
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[16:25:08] <netwerkeddude> th: thinks abnf needs to change, cuz u may have schemes that wish to support a diff approach;
[16:25:10] <julian> hildjj: will need to dig into the spec
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[16:25:29] <netwerkeddude> bc: calls for more feedback on the list
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[16:25:47] <netwerkeddude> last preso -- larry masinter (lm)
[16:26:00] <netwerkeddude> slide 1: IRI -L cleaning up URL specs
[16:26:12] <netwerkeddude> s/-L/->/
[16:27:05] <netwerkeddude> note that there's a recent fork of URI specs in the WHATWG space
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[16:28:00] <netwerkeddude> modest proposal: (re)charter WG to update STD 66, and make concerted effort to clean up the mess, and incorp WHATWG input (& energy?)
[16:28:28] <netwerkeddude> thinks this shud be discussed in IRI wg meeting tomorrow aftn
[16:28:42] <Eliot Lear> nice bomb to throw at the end of the meeting
[16:28:47] <netwerkeddude> bl: you /will/ be talking about this in IRI meeting; PR & BL are talking with whatwg folk
[16:29:13] netwerkeddude [ duck u suckers... ]
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[16:29:30] <netwerkeddude> slide: a few other topics (for bar BoFs??)
[16:29:48] <netwerkeddude> eg other "willful violations" of ietf specs on part of whatwg
[16:30:16] <netwerkeddude> another item: registerProtocolHandler(), registerContentHandler(), and the web+ url scheme
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[16:30:42] <netwerkeddude> harks back to Hannes' preso of "death of app protocols"
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[16:30:48] <netwerkeddude> ok, meeting ajourned !!!
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