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Friday, March 12, 2021< ^ >
Mike StJohns has set the subject to: ACE interim meeting - 6/22 - https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/agenda-interim-2020-ace-07-sessa/  Etherpad-alt: https://codimd.ietf.org/ace-interim-20-06-21# Jabber: ace@jabber.ietf.org
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[15:55:57] <Lorenzo Miniero_web_344> The TV-shaped icon
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[15:56:02] <Lorenzo Miniero_web_344> Under your name
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[15:56:37] <Justin Richer_web_449> FYI, the meetecho link is incorrect on the ACE materials page. It points to the rtwg meeting
[15:56:48] <Justin Richer_web_449> I just went there before I realized it was wrong
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[15:57:27] <Justin Richer_web_449> Specifically the link in this page: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/110/materials/agenda-110-ace
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[15:58:11] <Lorenzo Miniero_web_344> Daniel: if you're in incognito, CodiMD won't work (cross site cookies)
[15:58:19] Cigdem Sengul_web_178 joins the room
[15:58:20] <Lorenzo Miniero_web_344> (I saw the spinning UI)
[15:58:44] <Lorenzo Miniero_web_344> To be more precise: CodiMD in Meetecho won't work
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[15:59:19] <Cigdem Sengul_web_178> yes
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[16:01:24] <Daniel Migault_web_121> https://codimd.ietf.org/notes-ietf-110-ace?both
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[16:02:18] <Christian Amsüss_web_368> i can help with minutes but judging from cose where i just did it it'd help to have an assist
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[16:03:55] <kaduk@jabber.org/barnowl> I have opened up the etherpad, but I am trying to be in two sessions
at once...
[16:04:03] <Christian Amsüss_web_368> i can scream on jabber when i lose sync -- but if then nobody's there we''d be relying on recoridngs
[16:04:46] <kaduk@jabber.org/barnowl> Please do
[16:05:23] <Christian Amsüss_web_368> it still says etherpad in some locations in the tools, so... yay for generic names :-)
[16:05:26] <kaduk@jabber.org/barnowl> Yes, it's not actually etherpad, but the link on the official agenda
still has a tooltip that calls it "etherpad"
[16:05:48] <Carsten Bormann_web_245> Why are we so hell-bent on confusing ourselves...
[16:05:59] <kaduk@jabber.org/barnowl> Cry tears of sadness into a Kleenex, and make a copy of your printed
notes on a Xerox machine
[16:06:13] <Carsten Bormann_web_245> CODIMD is called Hedgedoc, BTW
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[16:07:59] <Cigdem Sengul_web_178> The minor change in the list to make explicity TLS use - I can do that no problem.
[16:08:15] <kaduk@jabber.org/barnowl> I actually put a good chunk of time into my review of the MQTT-TLS
profile this week, it's just that most of that time was spent reading
the MQTT spec rather than the ACE document itself.
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[16:08:52] <Cigdem Sengul_web_178> I am not sure that is a good thing or a bad thing :) - anything we need to be more clear on the ACE profile about MQTT?
[16:09:57] <kaduk@jabber.org/barnowl> I think it is more likely than not that I will mix up coap-eap and
coap-est at least once
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[16:12:09] <Olaf Bergmann_web_452> + (gnap)
[16:13:19] <kaduk@jabber.org/barnowl> Daniel: the three horizontal lines ("hamburger") in the top left will
make the slides bigger
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[16:19:25] <Mohit Sethi_web_541> the text says: client SHOULD be configured to trust the CA certificate used by proxy to sign the Man in the Middle (MITM) certificate for certificate chain validation
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[16:23:29] <Christian Amsüss_web_368> ben, sorry i didn't capture that
[16:24:25] <Christian Amsüss_web_368> someone is updating the pad already
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[16:35:57] <kaduk@jabber.org/barnowl> My question was answered as I entered the queue
[16:36:21] <kaduk@jabber.org/barnowl> (Just checking that the reason we can make those optimizations is
because EAP is a lockstep protocol that only has a single
request/response outstanding at any given time)
[16:36:45] <Mohit Sethi_web_541> mic: can we not have bullets in abstract? the iana section is incorrect. It should request IANA to assign a value for CoAP as a lower layer in the EAP registry: https://www.iana.org/assignments/eap-numbers/eap-numbers.xhtml#eap-lower-layers. I have not read the latest version of the draft but plan to send my review in the near (or far) future. would be good to investigate if some optimizations can be achieved by tighter integration between coap and eap. for example relationship between coap message-id and eap request/response-id
[16:39:50] <Mohit Sethi_web_541> i am guessing that you can't easily change/control either of the implementations.
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[16:40:01] <kaduk@jabber.org/barnowl> I would have the same guess.
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[16:47:40] <kaduk@jabber.org/barnowl> Thanks Dan, that was a good answer to my question
[16:49:16] <Mohit Sethi_web_541> I agree that changing the EAP state machine is a strict no no. but I disagree that EAP-TLS 1.3 was close to publication even though it was changing the state machine. At least it wasn't in my opinion. but that's a discussion for another list. :grinning:
[16:50:33] <cabo> (Running out of time on this item.)
[16:51:32] <kaduk@jabber.org/barnowl> Mohit Sethi: I mean, if I didn't put a discuss on it, it would have
been approved.  And the state machine is not exactly one of the points
in my original discuss ballot, either
[16:53:16] <Mohit Sethi_web_541> @Ben: I blame TLS 1.3 for all the issues :grinning:. We are going back to 1 byte application data. Only this time as a protected success indicator after client certificate and not as indicator of no more post handshake messages.
[16:53:51] <kaduk@jabber.org/barnowl> Mohit Sethi: yes, and I think we are pretty confident that this will
be secure.
[16:54:50] <Mohit Sethi_web_541> It's friday. I was only sarcastic for blaming TLS 1.3. In reality. Thanks to the 100s of contributors who produced an excellent spec that is already widely deployed.
[16:55:29] <kaduk@jabber.org/barnowl> :grin:
[16:56:57] <BEHCET SARIKAYA> Great Mohit
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[17:02:19] <kaduk@jabber.org/barnowl> Giving out more keys and relying on authorization checks at the broker
is a little "fragile" in that if another participant is compromised or
the channel security between client and broker is compromised, then
the knowledge of the keys can result in reading messages.  But there
may not be a better alternative, and IIRC we basically do require the
relevant channel security to the broker
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[17:03:21] <kaduk@jabber.org/barnowl> (This is not a new insight, I expect, so no need to repeat it)
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[17:09:01] <Marco Tiloca_web_319> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-core-groupcomm-bis/
[17:13:44] <Christian Amsüss_web_368> nice use of No-Response, I like :-)
[17:16:10] <BEHCET SARIKAYA> Which area ace WG in?
[17:16:19] <kaduk@jabber.org/barnowl> security area
[17:16:24] <Loganaden Velvindron_web_188> sec
[17:16:39] <BEHCET SARIKAYA> @Ben thanks
[17:17:34] <Natalie Ennis_web_759> Can you slow down please?
[17:19:33] <Christian Amsüss_web_368> dan, raphael: on eap if you want to chat a bit more about what you can or can't do with coap implementations i'd be happy to. i can't promise there's any juice left in my brain after this session (if so, i'll be around on gather); otherwise, mail me if interested
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[17:20:40] <Christian Amsüss_web_368> ... and a very big white board
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[17:22:21] <kaduk@jabber.org/barnowl> I think I would want some time to ponder over it before agreeing that
we can always use the COSE_Key 'kid' to hold the node ID of the
associated group member
[17:25:05] <Christian Amsüss_web_368> ben, i've repeatedly have had trouble understanding you when you start talking (sounds like codec adjusting). wild guess if you don't do it: maybe it helps if you open your mike already when you queue up
[17:25:26] <Christian Amsüss_web_368> (like, first 10 seconds)
[17:25:28] <kaduk@jabber.org/barnowl> Christian: okay, thanks for letting me know
[17:26:54] <Mohit Sahni_web_245> Christian, I just realized that how hard is to be a scribe :sweat_smile:, Thanks
[17:32:31] <Dan Garcia-Carrillo_web_714> hi christian, thanks. That would be great, we can talk by mail.
[17:32:35] <Cigdem Sengul_web_836> This is definitely important for the pubsub document - how to parse scope for CoAP/MQTT applications
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[17:34:43] <Cigdem Sengul_web_836> +1
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[17:36:39] <Christian Amsüss_web_368> ben: works :-) thanks
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[17:43:47] <kaduk@jabber.org/barnowl> I can sympathize with Daniel -- it took me three tries to pull up
Cigdem's slides, earlier :)
[17:44:33] <BEHCET SARIKAYA> Another Q what is RISE?
[17:45:04] <kaduk@jabber.org/barnowl> ri.se, research institute of sweden
[17:45:32] <BEHCET SARIKAYA> Thanks again, Ben
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[17:59:09] <Mohit Sethi_web_541> thanks Daniel for running a tight ship. I need to run back to the hotel and collect my bags. Have a safe flight everyone. See you at the next IETF if not at one of the interims.
[17:59:10] <BEHCET SARIKAYA> see you at IETF 111
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[17:59:45] <BEHCET SARIKAYA> have a safe flight those flying
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[18:00:09] <Cigdem Sengul_web_836> Thank you
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[18:00:13] <Cigdem Sengul_web_836> Bye
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[18:00:15] <marco.tiloca> Thank you all!
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[18:00:26] <Loganaden Velvindron_web_188> see you all
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