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[07:16:10] <jimsch1> Good morning Cigdem
[07:17:27] <Cigdem Sengul> Good morning
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[07:23:00] <jimsch1> yes you are audible
[07:23:03] <Cigdem Sengul> All good
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[07:25:03] <jimsch1> Have him do it on eitherpad
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[07:25:15] <francesca> hello
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[07:25:46] <francesca> Im your jabber scribe today, please preface the comment you want relayed to the mic with "mic:"
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[07:28:20] <Jim Schaad> mic: When are the next two AD reviews expected
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[07:28:31] <Jim Schaad> Hi
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[07:28:54] <Ludwig> Hello I'll be the jabber scribe while Francesca is presenting
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[07:39:09] kaduk@jabber.org/barnowl has set the subject to: ACE meeting - IETF 105 - https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/105/materials/agenda-105-ace/
[07:39:26] Ludwig has set the subject to: ACE meeting - IETF 106 - https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/106/materials/agenda-106-ace/
[07:39:34] <jimsch1> no - it arrived about the same time as Francesca started talking
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[07:40:18] <kaduk@jabber.org/barnowl> That was my guess, but I wasn't sure how the timing landed since I
joined the room late
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[07:42:07] <jimsch1> mic: I think that a minimum of 2 drafts are going to be needed before it is considered to be stable
[07:54:58] <jimsch1> What ever you want it to be
[07:55:26] <jimsch1> from the TLS exporter
[07:55:35] <francesca> yes
[07:55:59] <francesca> we will say that in the doc
[07:57:18] <kaduk@jabber.org/barnowl> Using an 8-byte nonce will require some justification, though from a
quick skim maybe it is not the most terrible thing ever.
[07:57:57] <francesca> the 8byte length was a suggestion because we think that we will be asked for a recommended length...
[07:58:33] <francesca> but if you have feedback, please let us know!
[07:59:07] <Jim Schaad> mic: The exporter allows you to set the size for exporting
[08:02:53] <kaduk@jabber.org/barnowl> We need to be clear about what properties are needed over what
timescales from the nonce(s) -- e.g., collision-resistance vs.
unguessability, and IIUC for the duration of a single transaction.
[08:03:57] <francesca> thank you Ben, we'll need to think about that
[08:04:32] <jimsch1> THe nonce is just to make sure that the signature corresponds to the current session.  You basically are looking for channel binding or freshness
[08:04:47] <kaduk@jabber.org/barnowl> Even so, in protocols for "big metal" we'd still prefer 128-bit
strength for unguessability (so 256 bits when collision-resistance is
required).  So we may lean heavily on the time-limited nature in
addition to the constrained nature of things and the precedent for
64-bit authentication tags in IoT usage
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[08:11:24] <Jim Schaad> mic: I think that it can be done in a separte draft without any issues
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[08:11:48] <kaduk@jabber.org/barnowl> "it" being publish payload encryption?
[08:11:52] <Jim Schaad> yes
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[08:14:17] <Jim Schaad> is that Mohit?
[08:14:29] <kaduk@jabber.org/barnowl> yes, Mohit
[08:16:27] <jimsch1> this is a transmission cost trade off
[08:16:35] <francesca> jim mic?
[08:16:40] <jimsch1> sure
[08:16:43] <francesca> mohit is not following the jabber
[08:16:48] <jimsch1> he just said it
[08:16:49] <francesca> ok
[08:17:39] <jimsch1> @Cigdem:  You might be able to use a larger value because you are using TCP rather than UDP as the transport protocol
[08:18:03] <Cigdem Sengul> thanks Jim, yes.
[08:18:08] <jimsch1> @Cigdem: No - both sids need to extract it independtly
[08:21:46] <jimsch1> @Cigdem:  Should we be able to do some type of interop testing in January?
[08:22:10] <Cigdem Sengul> @Jim - yes that would be fine - I will let you know the stability of the current implementation
[08:22:16] <Ludwig> replacement jabber-scribe coming online
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[08:26:09] <Cigdem Sengul> mic: the name of the draft coap-pubsub - will it change if MQTT described? I was under the impression it would be described in the mqtt_tls_profile.
[08:27:12] <Cigdem Sengul> it-> payload encryption
[08:30:03] <jimsch1> mic: I would like to see a single content encryption format for both versions and not different for each
[08:30:57] <Cigdem Sengul> @Jim: I would be fine with that - sth that MQTT implementers find it.
[08:31:25] <Cigdem Sengul> @Jim: instead of the second part applicable of the draft
[08:31:39] <kaduk@jabber.org/barnowl> Do I understand correctly that we have three "chunks" -- key
distribution for coap pubsub, key distribution for mqtt, and the
details of encrypting messages?
[08:32:00] <Cigdem Sengul> Find means that they understand it supports MQTT too
[08:32:14] <kaduk@jabber.org/barnowl> I think Carsten is making my point; basically, the third part would go
in whichever document is ready first (or a separate one if there's a
need for separability)
[08:32:37] <jimsch1> The three pieces are 1) How to talk to the CoAP pub-sub server with keys, 2) How to talk to the MQTT put-sub server with keys, 3) How to encrypt the content of the messages indepent of pub-sub server
[08:32:51] <Ludwig> Any of this "mic"?
[08:33:02] <Cigdem Sengul> @Jim: +1
[08:33:03] <jimsch1> no I was responding to kaduk
[08:33:13] <jimsch1> +1
[08:33:26] <Göran Selander> +1
[08:35:13] <Cigdem Sengul> yes
[08:35:14] <Ludwig> volunteers to review?
[08:35:16] <Cigdem Sengul> will review
[08:35:19] <kaduk@jabber.org/barnowl> I am skimming the doc; it seems like (3) is roughly section 6 of
[08:36:06] <jimsch1> that looks right from the TOC
[08:38:23] <francesca> yes exactly Ben
[08:38:47] <francesca> that and sec cons
[08:39:44] <kaduk@jabber.org/barnowl> And section 6 is pretty small, so feels almost "too short for its own
[08:39:55] <francesca> that was the idea
[08:41:15] <francesca> I just need to do some re-writing to generalize wherever I say "CoAP pubsub" and "CoAP payload"
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[08:47:46] <jimsch1> I have read it -- but I don't remeber it at the moement
[08:48:10] <kaduk@jabber.org/barnowl> I know the feeling
[08:48:48] <Göran Selander> I am for sure
[08:49:17] <jimsch1> I will be reading the draft in the next couple of weeks and put in a review
[08:50:33] <Ludwig> @Göran: Was that "will read" or "have read"
[08:50:36] <Ludwig> ?
[08:50:49] <Göran Selander> I will read
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[08:53:01] <francesca> I need to leave in 2 minutes
[08:53:16] <jimsch1> Needs to get the API from the PubSub CoAP because it looks like it is going to be almost the same
[08:53:28] <francesca> yes we are synced
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[08:56:07] <Cigdem Sengul> By
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