IETF
ace
ace@jabber.ietf.org
Tuesday, November 14, 2017< ^ >
ynir has set the subject to: ACE meeting - IETF 98 - Room Zurich C - https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/98/agenda/ace/
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[01:33:29] <Ludwig Seitz> I can hear you guys fine
[01:33:30] <max pritikin> i can hear you
[01:33:57] <Samuel Weiler> remote participants: What detail of jabber scribing would you like?
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[01:34:54] <Samuel Weiler> the agenda declines to be bashed.
[01:35:07] <Ludwig Seitz> I'm hearing the live stream, so minimal for me is ok
[01:35:30] <Samuel Weiler> chairs introduce themselves.  the room responds, as though this is a 12-step meeting.
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[01:42:36] <max pritikin> i agree with ludwig to such an extent i wasn't even monitoring the chat session
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[01:42:53] synp has set the subject to: ACE meeting - IETF 100 - https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/100/materials/agenda-100-ace/
[01:43:15] <kadukoafs@gmail.com/barnowl21C1A14B> So it sounds like mostly the need is to relay any remarks to the
microphone from remote people, then.
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[02:24:01] <Ludwig Seitz> Note that psk_identity is not in the ClientHello (not for mic)
[02:24:45] <kadukoafs@gmail.com/barnowl21C1A14B> It is in the TLS 1.3 ClientHello
[02:25:28] <kadukoafs@gmail.com/barnowl21C1A14B> but the TLS 1.2 ClientKeyExchange, yes
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[02:33:30] <Ludwig Seitz> It should be implicit from what you get from the AS
[02:33:48] <Ludwig Seitz> ... what Jim said ...
[02:33:55] <kadukoafs@gmail.com/barnowl21C1A14B> :)
[02:36:31] <francesca> what I meant is that an AS implementing this wrong could then create a problem in the Client that doesn't know what to use (I know it should not happen if the specifications are followed but...)
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[02:37:22] <francesca> if you specify a different label/profile for each "mode" then you can specify errors on the client side if what he gets is not what the label specifies
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[02:38:09] <francesca> in the case you do not specify, how would the client react on a "malformed" response from the AS?
[02:38:17] <Michael Richardson> i will.
[02:38:32] <Ludwig Seitz> I have
[02:38:54] <francesca> Michael you will implement?
[02:39:06] <Michael Richardson> I will review. I don't know if I need to implement.
[02:39:30] <Michael Richardson> we are talking about draft-ietf-ace-dtls-authorize, right...
[02:39:45] <francesca> yes, the dtls profile
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[02:42:59] <kathleen.moriarty> Sorry for getting on this late, but it seems the remote volunteers have not been relayed into the meeting.  Who is the jabber scribe?
[02:43:36] <kadukoafs@gmail.com/barnowl21C1A14B> I think Sam was being jabber scribe
[02:43:51] <Ludwig Seitz> Aren't we using the usual convention of prefacing comments with "mic:" if we want them relayed?
[02:43:53] <kadukoafs@gmail.com/barnowl21C1A14B> But I think several of these comments were not intended to be relayed
[02:44:56] <kathleen.moriarty> I'm talking about polls for interest, the summary might have helped for questions on documents where interest was being gauged.
[02:44:57] <Samuel Weiler> sorry, yes, me.  But I was assuming those who wanted things relayed would specifically ask.
[02:45:18] <kathleen.moriarty> I think polls are a little different, thanks!
[02:45:36] <kathleen.moriarty> 1 person, 3 people, etc
[02:46:08] <kathleen.moriarty> It helps the remote experience
[02:46:41] <kadukoafs@gmail.com/barnowl21C1A14B> Ah.  The names are making their way into the etherpad, usually.
[02:47:47] <kathleen.moriarty> OK, so it winds up in the overall, but impressions leaving the room could vary from the actual end result and cause confusion.  I've been thinking a bit about the remote problem, having had to be remote for a couple of meetings :-)
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[02:48:17] <kadukoafs@gmail.com/barnowl21C1A14B> *nods*
[02:48:51] <francesca> (I will report Michael reviewing the dtls profile in the etherpad, in that specific case it didn't get in the ehterpad)
[02:49:17] <Samuel Weiler> thank you
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[02:59:03] <max pritikin> i will also review
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[03:14:43] <Michael Koster> The segmentation of application vs. transport is part of the pub/sub profile with 2 AS instances
[03:15:39] <Michael Koster> One AS is used to get transfer layer keys
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[03:16:01] <Michael Koster> the second AS is used to establish application layer keys for the data which is sent
[03:16:09] <Samuel Weiler> (for relay?)
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[03:17:31] <Michael Koster> in the pubsub profile, one AS is used to gain access to the broker
[03:18:04] <Michael Koster> the second (app layer) AS is used to gain access to the topics (the data exchanged between publisher and supplier)
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[03:18:36] <Michael Koster> The publisher-subscriber key may encrypt the payload
[03:19:31] <Samuel Weiler> (we also have Meetecho on a second projector/screen - raising your hand in meetecho can get you the floor, complete with optional video…)
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[03:28:16] <francesca> (I am going to report Michael Koster in the etherpad)
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[03:36:00] <=JeffH> is there a link for the slides that are up there?
[03:36:38] <=JeffH> nevermind - found it
[03:36:59] <Samuel Weiler> https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/100/materials/slides-100-ace-chair-slides/
[03:37:01] <Samuel Weiler> slide 8
[03:37:17] <=JeffH> yep, thx
[03:37:44] <Michael Richardson> +3 to what MST said.
[03:39:00] <Samuel Weiler> MSJ, you mean?
[03:39:19] <kadukoafs@gmail.com/barnowl21C1A14B> Presumably
[03:39:26] <Samuel Weiler> (there are other SDOs?)
[03:39:44] <Matthew Gillmore> +1 to what MSJ said
[03:41:07] <Michael Koster> Specifically, a DSA type architecture can have a private key per publisher
[03:42:11] <Michael Koster> I guess DSA == symmetric?
[03:42:31] <Michael Koster> == low security
[03:42:31] <Michael Richardson> no, DSA == assymetric.
[03:43:10] <Michael Koster> but if there is a separate private key per publisher is there the same issue?
[03:43:18] <mcr/soho> yes, s/MST/MSJ/
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[03:48:57] <max pritikin> is there an agreed method of "humming" over meetecho?
[03:49:13] <Samuel Weiler> hum here.
[03:49:21] <meetecho> max pritikin: apart from writing "humm" on jabber, I'm afraid not :)
[03:49:21] <Samuel Weiler> the chairs are "listening"
[03:49:31] <max pritikin> thx
[03:50:04] <max pritikin> my hum: Yes, we should consider this problem in general. (not humming on specific how questions).
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[03:53:46] <Michael Richardson> "in the low security case, all devices have the same priviledge"
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[03:55:08] <max pritikin> I disagree with the definitions. A "low security" case is one in which specific identified security breaches result in acceptable losses.
[03:55:41] <max pritikin> i like the bullet as shown.
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[03:56:09] <max pritikin> humming yes
[03:56:11] <Michael Richardson> max, I actually think that if here is any "losses", (whether acceptable or not), is middle.
[03:56:49] <Ludwig Seitz> hmmm
[03:56:57] <Ludwig Seitz> (yes)
[03:56:58] <max pritikin> i think that is a similar state: losses are minimal (to non-existent)
[03:57:10] <max pritikin> therefore: i hum yes.
[03:57:16] <Michael Richardson> I'm okay with this definition, and with dealing with it.  I think that was the Yes hum.
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[03:57:56] <francesca> sorry could you say on what point? 1. 2. 3?
[03:58:12] <max pritikin> i hummed yes for 1 & 2
[03:58:14] <Samuel Weiler> 3
[03:58:18] <Ludwig Seitz> hmmm (no)
[03:58:26] <max pritikin> i am *not* humming for (3). (silence from me)
[03:58:29] <francesca> ok thanks
[03:58:47] <Michael Richardson> I couldn't understand the questions in the end. I hope that they will clearly posted to the list.
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[04:02:53] <Michael Koster> I guess the choices are a "group" model which is symmetric, and a "multicast" model which is asymmetric?
[04:03:02] <Dave Thaler> I understood 2 of the 4 questions clearly enough :)
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[04:03:28] <Michael Koster> Does asymmetric imply DSA architecture and source auth?
[04:03:37] <max pritikin> wave
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[04:03:41] <Dave Thaler> @michael, i would not assume group == symmetric and multicast == asymmetric as the terminology
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