IETF
ace
ace@jabber.ietf.org
Monday, November 2, 2015< ^ >
Room Configuration
Room Occupants

GMT+0
[00:00:57] <Kathleen Moriarty> I'm in a loop trying to join meet echo.  It keeps circling through the same 2 dialog boxes - enter name, company, agree to notewell, then asks me to set the meeting.
[00:01:11] Roger Carney joins the room
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[00:01:33] <Kathleen Moriarty> I'm trying to get into Room 302
[00:02:25] <Erik Wahlstrom> Worked just fine for me.
[00:02:51] Olaf Bergmann leaves the room
[00:02:52] <Kathleen Moriarty> What link did you use?
[00:03:12] <Kathleen Moriarty> I'm trying https://room302.conf.meetecho.com/meetecho/login.jsp?ietf=ace
[00:03:30] <Erik Wahlstrom> http://www.meetecho.com/ietf94/ace
[00:03:32] <Meetecho> http://www.meetecho.com/ietf94/ace will
[00:03:36] <Meetecho> give you the right link
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[00:04:26] <wseltzer> Hello, I will be your jabber relay
[00:04:35] <Kathleen Moriarty> I'm shutting my browser down as it says a user with my name is in already
[00:04:36] Olaf Bergmann joins the room
[00:04:49] <wseltzer> please put MIC: in front of comments you'd like relayed to the room
[00:04:56] <Erik Wahlstrom> Thanks Wendy
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[00:05:48] <Kathleen Moriarty> I'm in now, thanks
[00:06:58] <wseltzer> slides: https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/94/slides/slides-94-ace-0.pdf
[00:08:44] <wseltzer> Carsten's slides: https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/94/slides/slides-94-ace-2.pdf
[00:10:49] wseltzer atmosphere: the lights in the room are dimming
[00:11:38] <wseltzer> [slide 4]
[00:15:50] <wseltzer> [slide 6]
[00:16:41] <wseltzer> [slide 7]
[00:18:39] <wseltzer> [slide 9]
[00:19:14] <wseltzer> [slide 10]
[00:20:27] <wseltzer> [slide 13]
[00:20:39] <wseltzer> [slide 15]
[00:21:27] <wseltzer> [slide 16]
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[00:22:44] <wseltzer> Hannes at the mic
[00:25:42] <wseltzer> Ludwig @@
[00:25:55] <wseltzer> Ludwig Seitz
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[00:27:45] <Kathleen Moriarty> Mic: The separate draft has not been adopted yet, so let's run with the actors draft
[00:28:23] <Kathleen Moriarty> Thanks, Wendy
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[00:30:54] <wseltzer> DCAF slides: https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/94/slides/slides-94-ace-3.pdf
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[00:43:23] <wseltzer> slides: https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/94/slides/slides-94-ace-6.pdf
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[00:48:08] <wseltzer> @@
[00:48:57] <wseltzer> (sorry, I'm not catching all the names at the mic)
[00:49:11] <jimsch1> Ludwig
[00:49:13] <Olaf Bergmann> Göran Selander
[00:49:29] wseltzer thanks Jim and Olaf
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[00:50:33] <Olaf Bergmann> MIC: yes, this is just a start, needs revisions
[00:51:03] <wseltzer> Hannes
[00:51:40] <wseltzer> in line, Olaf
[00:51:50] <Olaf Bergmann> nvm, Jorge answered the same
[00:51:56] <Olaf Bergmann> sorry
[00:51:59] <wseltzer> ok
[00:54:09] <wseltzer> privacy slides: https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/94/slides/slides-94-ace-5.pdf
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[01:00:00] <sftcd> how's data integrity work with this?
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[01:01:21] <wseltzer> Göran Selander
[01:02:29] <Kathleen Moriarty> Who has done that work?
[01:02:49] <Kathleen Moriarty> Is the presenter volunteering?
[01:03:36] <wseltzer> Hannes
[01:03:40] <sftcd> so I get to flip the bits of his temperature readings? nice
[01:03:40] <jimsch1> Not useful unless there is a minimum set of properties first - doing authenticiation always adds size
[01:04:25] <jimsch1> You also get losts of replay potentially
[01:06:13] <wseltzer> Leif
[01:07:20] <wseltzer> Ludwig's slides: https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/94/slides/slides-94-ace-1.pdf
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[01:24:10] <wseltzer> Mike Jones
[01:24:19] <sftcd> from microsoft:-)
[01:25:04] <Olaf Bergmann> MIC: DCAF re-uses DTLS. COSE,  ...    it does by far not re-invent everything from scratch
[01:25:38] <Kathleen Moriarty> The comparison is next, led by the chair
[01:25:49] <wseltzer> in line, Olaf
[01:25:57] <Olaf Bergmann> @Kathleen: seemed that Ludwig just started it
[01:26:51] <Kathleen Moriarty> Yes, but we may get through the session a bit better if we leave the discussions where they should be.  Carsten did something similar and brushed by a comparison chart of his own.  
[01:27:23] <wseltzer> Justin
[01:27:27] <Olaf Bergmann> agreed
[01:28:03] <wseltzer> Jim Schaad
[01:29:31] <wseltzer> Hannes
[01:29:47] <Olaf Bergmann> @wseltzer: thx
[01:31:29] <Meetecho> just FYI, if you have any issue with remote audio or video, just mention us and we'll be automatically alerted so that we can look into it
[01:31:42] <Kathleen Moriarty> It's been great so far, thank you!
[01:31:49] <Meetecho> ok!
[01:32:57] <wseltzer> Hannes, searching for the mic
[01:33:09] <wseltzer> Jorge
[01:33:44] <wseltzer> on-screen, final slide of https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/94/slides/slides-94-ace-0.pdf
[01:36:58] <wseltzer> Göran Selander
[01:39:42] <wseltzer> Ludwig
[01:40:57] <wseltzer> Carsten
[01:42:10] <wseltzer> Ludwig
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[01:43:22] <wseltzer> Carsten
[01:43:57] <wseltzer> Hannes
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[01:45:29] <wseltzer> Carsten
[01:46:33] <wseltzer> Robert Craigie
[01:47:26] <wseltzer> Hannes
[01:48:06] <wseltzer> Sunil
[01:48:09] <wseltzer> Hannes
[01:49:10] <wseltzer> Göran
[01:49:51] <wseltzer> Leif
[01:49:51] <Olaf Bergmann> MIC: the CAS is required whenever you have cross-domain constrained-to-constrained communication
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[01:51:05] <wseltzer> in line
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[01:51:10] <Olaf Bergmann> thx
[01:51:33] <wseltzer> Stephen
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[01:52:04] <wseltzer> Carsten
[01:52:43] <wseltzer> Hannes
[01:52:44] <Erik Wahlstrom> mic: I showed a slide in Prage where I did looked through the use case doc and found answers to all requirements in object security, oauth and uma.
[01:54:16] <sftcd> @olaf: wrt cross-domain - is that the only time you start to need the CAS?
[01:55:36] <Olaf Bergmann> the main use because it helps authenticating the other side; for other uses, it can be co-located with the AS as in the current OAuth profile is assumed
[01:56:21] <Olaf Bergmann> with a not-so-constrained client (tablet, smartphone), you can do the cross-domain easily because you can check e.g. certificates
[01:56:33] <sftcd> so would it be fair to say that for the CAS to be useful, we'd need some functioning multi-domain key management of some kind?
[01:57:38] <Erik Wahlstrom> mic: an actually number might look good from the beginning. oauth has a lot of add-on specs then the first RFC’s. It shows that when a solution like this is starting to become deployed, it needs different deployment models and solutions. The ace solution need to scale to those corner cases and reuse those ideas and answers.
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[01:59:02] <wseltzer> Wolfgang
[01:59:05] <Olaf Bergmann> @sftcd: not neccessarily because you could have a pre-defined business relationship with "manual" key exchange
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[01:59:59] <sftcd> right, doesn't have to be able to manage keys for the entire internet but you need to have some cross-domain pre-arranged keying (which iirc is still hard for Kerberos many years later)
[02:00:36] <sftcd> heh, SDP for ACE, cool:-)
[02:00:43] <Olaf Bergmann> ^correct
[02:03:09] <wseltzer> Ludwig
[02:03:35] <wseltzer> Carsten
[02:03:48] <wseltzer> (earlier was Klaus, Leif)
[02:04:24] <wseltzer> Phil Hunt
[02:05:57] <wseltzer> Göran
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[02:07:47] <wseltzer> Q: How many people have read the drafts? OAUTH
[02:08:01] <wseltzer> ~20%
[02:08:14] <wseltzer> DCAF?
[02:08:19] <wseltzer> about the same (slightly fewer)
[02:08:35] <wseltzer> How many people have implemented solutions?
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[02:09:07] <wseltzer> DCAF?
[02:09:12] <Erik Wahlstrom> hum! we have impl oauth
[02:09:15] <wseltzer> 1
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[02:09:24] <wseltzer> OAUTH?
[02:09:26] <wseltzer> 3
[02:09:41] <wseltzer> Q: Do you want to have one solution or 2?
[02:10:42] <wseltzer> Göran
[02:11:44] <Olaf Bergmann> MIC: maybe, in the end, it is not a single solution
[02:12:27] <Erik Wahlstrom> hum for one solution
[02:12:30] <wseltzer> One solution:
[02:12:49] <wseltzer> more than 12/
[02:12:55] <wseltzer> Two solutions: 2
[02:13:07] <wseltzer> Need more info: about 10 people
[02:13:21] <sftcd> 4 read drafts
[02:13:57] <wseltzer> Robert
[02:15:32] <wseltzer> Stephen
[02:17:54] <wseltzer> Q on-screen: Which solution should be the starting point: DCAF or OAuth Profiling
[02:18:51] <wseltzer> DCAF?
[02:19:00] <wseltzer> [no hands]
[02:19:04] <wseltzer> OAuth Profiling?
[02:19:06] <Erik Wahlstrom> hummmmm
[02:19:24] <wseltzer> [more hands]
[02:19:33] <wseltzer> about 1/2 the room
[02:20:21] <Kathleen Moriarty> I agree
[02:20:30] <Olaf Bergmann> Göran has just proposed to exclude DCAF-people from working on the OAuth solution, so it is equal to dropping DCAF
[02:20:40] <Kathleen Moriarty> with Stephen's approach, let the chairs digest the information from the email list discussion
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[02:21:21] <wseltzer> slides: https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/94/slides/slides-94-ace-4.pdf
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[02:29:44] <jimsch1> Which document did he say was going to a last call in december?
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[02:30:16] <Kathleen Moriarty> The actors draft. I think it's supposed to finish WG last call by the end of the first week in December
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[02:30:27] <jimsch1> thanks
[02:30:33] <Kathleen Moriarty> NP
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