[05:22:51] Meetecho joins the room
[05:23:11] VirtualQueue_SCFHDQWp joins the room
[05:23:12] Yoshiro YONEYA joins the room
[05:25:06] John Border joins the room
[05:25:11] Tommy Jensen joins the room
[05:25:11] John Mah joins the room
[05:25:11] Chris Lemmons joins the room
[05:25:39] Andy Fidler joins the room
[05:26:07] Subramanian Moonesamy joins the room
[05:26:15] John Klensin joins the room
[05:27:13] SM joins the room
[05:27:21] Gianpaolo Scalone joins the room
[05:28:39] Alister Winfield_1 joins the room
[05:29:51] Melinda joins the room
[05:30:02] Petr Špaček joins the room
[05:30:15] Hugo Salgado joins the room
[05:30:38] joehall joins the room
[05:30:41] <joehall> woo!
[05:30:45] Mark Andrews joins the room
[05:30:46] Barry Leiba joins the room
[05:30:52] Melinda leaves the room: Disconnected: closed
[05:30:55] <joehall> notes are here: http://4.31.198.44:9009/p/notes-ietf-106-abcd?useMonospaceFont=true
[05:31:10] Melinda joins the room
[05:31:11] <Chris Lemmons> Nice.
[05:31:14] sftcd joins the room
[05:31:29] <Chris Lemmons> Do we have a jabber voice?
[05:32:01] <Melinda> Yes, Suzanne will have the, er, pen
[05:32:06] Kevin Smith joins the room
[05:32:10] <Chris Lemmons> Thanks.
[05:33:05] <Barry Leiba> Can remote people hear OK?
[05:33:08] Petr Špaček leaves the room
[05:33:10] Petr Špaček joins the room
[05:33:26] <Kevin Smith> Great thanks Barry.
[05:33:44] frodek joins the room
[05:33:46] <Chris Lemmons> Yup. Great audio.
[05:33:50] <Gianpaolo Scalone> thank you
[05:33:51] <Barry Leiba> Exellent
[05:33:57] Shane Kerr joins the room
[05:34:01] <Chris Lemmons> From the comments in the room, it's better audio out here than in there. :)
[05:35:57] Suzanne joins the room
[05:36:07] dkg joins the room
[05:36:23] <Suzanne> your slightly delayed scribe here, chairs are doing intro stuff
[05:36:25] Aaron Falk joins the room
[05:36:37] Aaron Falk has set the subject to: Chair's remarks
[05:37:31] Shane Kerr leaves the room
[05:38:51] <Suzanne> starting on the Mozilla Canary Domain topic, slide deck at https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/106/materials/slides-106-abcd-mozilla-canary-domain-00
[05:39:06] John Mah leaves the room
[05:39:18] chi.jiun.su joins the room
[05:39:23] Aaron Falk has set the subject to:  Report on canary domain experience (Andy Grover, Mozilla)
[05:40:11] Shane Kerr joins the room
[05:40:30] John Mah joins the room
[05:40:39] Manabu Sonoda joins the room
[05:41:10] <Suzanne> (slide 3)
[05:45:49] Thomas Peterson joins the room
[05:46:21] Barbara Stark joins the room
[05:47:10] Benno Overeinder joins the room
[05:48:16] Pete Resnick joins the room
[05:49:46] <Suzanne> EKR at the mic
[05:50:07] John Levine joins the room
[05:50:47] <Suzanne> Roy Arends at the mic
[05:51:50] <Suzanne> Bernie Hoenisen (sp?) speaking
[05:52:24] <Suzanne> David Schniazi
[05:52:26] Taiji Kimura joins the room
[05:52:56] Jeffrey Yasskin joins the room
[05:54:17] Aaron Falk has set the subject to: Overview of the Adaptive DOH proposal (Tommy Pauly, Apple)
[05:54:50] <Suzanne> "Adaptive DNS Privacy," Tommy Pauly, https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/106/materials/slides-106-abcd-mozilla-canary-domain-00
[05:55:42] Vera Li joins the room
[05:56:14] Simon Pietro Romano joins the room
[05:56:37] Benno Overeinder leaves the room: Disconnected: closed
[05:56:39] <Suzanne> (slide 4, questions)
[05:57:22] ted.h joins the room
[05:59:23] Thomas Peterson leaves the room
[05:59:44] Thomas Peterson joins the room
[06:01:38] Barry Leiba leaves the room
[06:01:43] Safa Almalki joins the room
[06:02:47] Barry Leiba joins the room
[06:03:17] <joehall> don’t trust the resolver, there
[06:04:18] <Suzanne> Eric Rescorla
[06:04:20] <ted.h> The example for coalescing seems to assume that Google  would serve DNS data and web data from the same IPs.  The Google Public DNS DoH URI template is, however:  https://dns.google/dns-query{?dns}) (see https://developers.google.com/speed/public-dns/docs/doh/migration). That's distinct from other Google services.
[06:05:51] Barbara Stark leaves the room
[06:05:59] <Suzanne> Warren Kumari
[06:06:46] <Suzanne> Jari Arkko
[06:07:24] Benno Overeinder joins the room
[06:07:30] <Pete Resnick> All this stuff talks in terms of DoH, but you could use these mechanisms for DoT too, couldn't you?
[06:07:33] <sftcd> not clear how DNSSEC is enough to solve the problem of a designated resolver over-claiming (without a new signed thing somewhere)
[06:08:19] <Suzanne> (didn't catch name, affiliiation is Akamai)
[06:09:16] <Shane Kerr> @Pete Resnick: I think so. But they like HTTP. :-)
[06:09:32] <Suzanne> Ray Bellis
[06:09:56] <Tommy Jensen> @Pete Resnick: their oblivious DoH proposal will shed some light on that decision, as he hinted at by saying DoH vs DoT makes proxying requests easier
[06:10:01] <Suzanne> Brian Dickson
[06:10:17] Benno Overeinder leaves the room
[06:11:11] <Aaron Falk> earlier akamai speaker was Ralf Weber
[06:11:20] Aaron Falk has set the subject to: Charter presentation (Chairs)
[06:11:22] <Pete Resnick> @Tommy: Ack. It would probably make some discussions in the (potential) WG less controversial if they factored out those things that are protocol agnostic and those things that aren't.
[06:11:44] <Chris Lemmons> Great discussion there. Definitely underscores the value of having folks work together on these issues.
[06:11:55] <Suzanne> Now on to charter discussion
[06:12:29] <Suzanne> Dave Lawrence: is there work here that can turn into good deliverables? IESG decides whether there's a WG formed
[06:13:01] meiling chen joins the room
[06:13:28] meiling chen leaves the room
[06:13:48] meiling chen joins the room
[06:15:03] <Suzanne> discussion of draft charter, which is here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/106/materials/slides-106-abcd-proposed-charter-text-revised-00
[06:15:27] chi.jiun.su leaves the room
[06:15:32] chi.jiun.su joins the room
[06:15:52] <sftcd> "can be discussed, but not argued" makes no sense to me fwiw
[06:16:09] <Pete Resnick> For someone (me) who hasn't been following the list, why is "Policy enforcement and control of the stub resolver configuration" on the bad list?
[06:16:11] <Melinda> No, not to me, either.
[06:16:53] <Suzanne> Aaron Falk
[06:18:07] <Suzanne> Jen Linkova
[06:18:37] <Suzanne> David Schinazi
[06:19:45] Taiji Kimura leaves the room
[06:20:36] Jörg Ott joins the room
[06:21:11] <Suzanne> Jari Arkko
[06:21:19] Melinda leaves the room: Disconnected: closed
[06:21:32] Melinda joins the room
[06:21:33] <Chris Lemmons> mic: I'm significantly in favour of working group formation. It's unclear to me how to put "discussion" in scope but not resolution of disagreement. Resolution of disagreement is a major part of what working groups do. Every working group has to narrow scope of discussion (sometimes taking the discussion offline to breakout groups) when topics get hot in order to get things done. I think monitoring that conversation is just part of the (admittedly difficult) work of the chairs. I don't know that the charter should put those topics out of scope, particularly since we'd benefit significantly if we came to consensus on some of those topics.
[06:22:00] cm-msk@jabber.org joins the room
[06:22:08] <cm-msk@jabber.org> DNSDISPATCH anyone?
[06:22:37] <Barry Leiba> Is anyone up to channel Chris?  If not, I'll do it.
[06:22:44] <sftcd> +1 to Jari that any putative WG should work on privacy and surveillance
[06:22:55] <Barry Leiba> Suzanne is.
[06:23:12] <Chris Lemmons> Thanks.
[06:24:21] Aaron Falk leaves the room
[06:24:25] Thomas Peterson leaves the room
[06:24:43] Aaron Falk joins the room
[06:25:31] <Suzanne> thats patrick mcmanus, i tbink
[06:25:35] Vera Li leaves the room
[06:25:36] <Melinda> It is
[06:25:36] <cm-msk@jabber.org> yes
[06:26:43] joehall leaves the room: Replaced by new connection
[06:26:43] joehall joins the room
[06:26:48] joehall leaves the room
[06:26:51] joehall joins the room
[06:27:03] <Suzanne> eric rescorla
[06:28:56] <Suzanne> brian dickson
[06:29:30] <Suzanne> mark nottingham
[06:29:37] Jonathan Lennox joins the room
[06:29:52] John Levine leaves the room
[06:30:00] Jonathan Lennox leaves the room
[06:30:04] <Suzanne> brian trammell
[06:31:33] <Chris Lemmons> mic: Responding to Patrick. While it's true that the charter could use improved specificity in deliverables, it's inaccurate to say that there are no deliverables present. There are several specific topics in the charter like discovery of resolvers, DNS Push, and such that could certainly be turned into the basis for the specific working group items fairly directly.
[06:31:51] John L joins the room
[06:32:24] mcr joins the room
[06:32:27] Magnus Westerlund joins the room
[06:32:42] <Suzanne> brian dickson
[06:32:43] <Tommy Jensen> +1 to Brian's comments, having a single item charter seems like the best path to success here, keeping focus on what matters. This WG is important, but the charter needs to be simplified.
[06:32:59] <Suzanne> oops, jim reid (other mic)
[06:33:12] <sftcd> fwiw I'm unclear what "this WG" brian meant though, not having a charter before us for that
[06:33:17] Peter Koch joins the room
[06:34:20] Jörg Ott leaves the room
[06:34:32] <Suzanne> brian dickson
[06:36:23] <sftcd> isn't a need to invent new IETF process a reason to not form a WG?
[06:37:18] <Chris Lemmons> mic: Strong agreement with Brian Dickenson with respect to the need for a strong chair and how rough consensus works.
[06:37:51] Aaron Falk leaves the room
[06:38:11] Ben Campbell joins the room
[06:38:22] Aaron Falk joins the room
[06:39:03] Aaron Falk leaves the room
[06:39:10] Baalajee S joins the room
[06:40:22] Baalajee S leaves the room
[06:40:39] <Suzanne> Alissa Cooper
[06:41:09] Ben Campbell leaves the room
[06:41:10] joehall leaves the room
[06:41:28] joehall joins the room
[06:41:40] Ben Campbell joins the room
[06:42:41] <Suzanne> (lost name, sorry)
[06:42:58] kaduk@jabber.org/barnowl joins the room
[06:42:59] <Tommy Jensen> Andrew Campling
[06:43:05] <Suzanne> thank you!!
[06:43:32] <Suzanne> Phill Hallam-Baker
[06:43:47] kaduk@jabber.org/barnowl leaves the room
[06:44:00] Jonathan Lennox joins the room
[06:44:37] ted.h leaves the room
[06:45:13] <Suzanne> Ray Bellis
[06:45:33] <Suzanne> Ralf Weber
[06:46:22] <Suzanne> Paul Duchene (sp?)
[06:46:40] ted.h joins the room
[06:46:44] <Suzanne> Chris Box
[06:47:49] <Suzanne> Glenn Deen
[06:48:00] <Suzanne> Glenn Deen
[06:48:28] <Melinda> I'm not sure what supporting the creation of a group means, tbh.  I think advocates need to be clear about what sort of work they think should be undertaken
[06:49:13] <Suzanne> Vittorio Bertola speaking
[06:49:33] <sftcd> @melinda, yep, sadly clarity seems to be decreasing over time
[06:49:48] <Chris Lemmons> Most of the people are saying what they mean. I'm hearing a lot of "I support the creation of a WG, but not with a special process and probably with fewer target goals."
[06:50:16] <Chris Lemmons> Or more briefly: WG good, charter needs work.
[06:50:26] <Petr Špaček> mic: I think we can make real progress only if the scope is *very very narrow* - e.g. start with three items on the left and add more work items *only* when work on the initial list is finished.
[06:50:30] <Melinda> working group to do what?
[06:51:10] Barbara Stark joins the room
[06:51:26] <Suzanne> Rich Salz
[06:51:56] <Suzanne> @Chris Lemmons my sense also
[06:52:28] <Suzanne> Martin Thomson
[06:52:54] Barry Leiba leaves the room
[06:53:18] Melinda leaves the room: Disconnected: closed
[06:53:33] <sftcd> I reckon martin's right that tommy's presentation could be an entire wg
[06:53:55] Moritz Mueller joins the room
[06:53:55] <Suzanne> Eric Rescorla
[06:54:27] sureshk@jabber.org joins the room
[06:55:17] <Suzanne> ?? (missed speaker's name)
[06:55:32] Manabu Sonoda leaves the room
[06:55:34] <sftcd> surname is "P"
[06:56:00] <Suzanne> Richard Barnes
[06:57:00] Melinda joins the room
[06:57:17] <Suzanne> Eliot Lear
[06:58:24] <Suzanne> I think this is a good point: not all of those items are necessarily best dealt with in a WG.
[06:58:49] Aaron Falk joins the room
[06:58:55] Pete Resnick leaves the room
[06:59:19] Pete Resnick joins the room
[06:59:34] <Suzanne> Barry Leiba (responsible AD)
[07:00:00] Aaron Falk leaves the room
[07:00:06] <Suzanne> Alissa Cooper
[07:00:41] sureshk@jabber.org leaves the room
[07:01:03] <Suzanne> Sanjay Mishra
[07:01:35] Ben Campbell leaves the room
[07:01:41] Jonathan Lennox leaves the room
[07:01:42] Barbara Stark leaves the room
[07:02:11] sftcd leaves the room
[07:02:12] Subramanian Moonesamy leaves the room
[07:02:14] <Suzanne> Brian Dickson gets the last word, discussion continues towards consensus on the mailing list
[07:02:14] Hugo Salgado leaves the room
[07:02:15] Kevin Smith leaves the room
[07:02:15] Petr Špaček leaves the room
[07:02:15] Moritz Mueller leaves the room
[07:02:15] Andy Fidler leaves the room
[07:02:15] John Klensin leaves the room
[07:02:15] meiling chen leaves the room
[07:02:15] Mark Andrews leaves the room
[07:02:15] Alister Winfield_1 leaves the room
[07:02:15] John Mah leaves the room
[07:02:15] Peter Koch leaves the room
[07:02:15] Magnus Westerlund leaves the room
[07:02:15] Shane Kerr leaves the room
[07:02:15] Gianpaolo Scalone leaves the room
[07:02:15] Safa Almalki leaves the room
[07:02:15] John Border leaves the room
[07:02:15] Simon Pietro Romano leaves the room
[07:02:15] Tommy Jensen leaves the room
[07:02:16] Chris Lemmons leaves the room
[07:02:17] ted.h leaves the room
[07:02:20] SM leaves the room
[07:02:36] Yoshiro YONEYA leaves the room
[07:02:41] cm-msk@jabber.org leaves the room
[07:02:41] Suzanne leaves the room
[07:03:26] John L leaves the room
[07:03:40] Meetecho leaves the room
[07:04:07] Jeffrey Yasskin leaves the room
[07:04:25] Jeffrey Yasskin joins the room
[07:04:34] joehall leaves the room
[07:05:04] Melinda leaves the room: Disconnected: closed
[07:07:56] VirtualQueue_SCFHDQWp leaves the room
[07:11:45] Aaron Falk joins the room
[07:14:11] frodek leaves the room
[07:16:48] Pete Resnick leaves the room: Disconnected: closed
[07:17:19] Jonathan Lennox joins the room
[07:17:30] Jonathan Lennox leaves the room
[07:18:20] mcr leaves the room: Disconnected: closed
[07:18:26] frodek joins the room
[07:19:20] Ben Campbell joins the room
[07:20:06] Aaron Falk leaves the room
[07:20:53] Jeffrey Yasskin leaves the room
[07:21:34] mcr joins the room
[07:23:38] chi.jiun.su leaves the room
[07:24:24] Jeffrey Yasskin joins the room
[07:25:32] cm-msk@jabber.org joins the room
[07:26:21] Ben Campbell leaves the room
[07:26:53] frodek leaves the room
[07:29:17] sureshk@jabber.org joins the room
[07:29:57] sureshk@jabber.org leaves the room
[07:31:24] John L joins the room
[07:37:13] Melinda joins the room
[07:41:11] cm-msk@jabber.org leaves the room
[07:41:49] cm-msk@jabber.org joins the room
[07:47:41] cm-msk@jabber.org leaves the room
[07:48:29] John L leaves the room
[07:49:20] Melinda leaves the room
[07:51:12] Jeffrey Yasskin leaves the room
[07:51:32] John L joins the room
[07:51:34] Pete Resnick joins the room
[07:52:39] Benno Overeinder joins the room
[07:55:47] Ben Campbell joins the room
[07:59:02] sftcd joins the room
[08:00:07] John L leaves the room
[08:00:34] Pete Resnick leaves the room
[08:00:37] John L joins the room
[08:05:36] Jeffrey Yasskin joins the room
[08:11:30] Alister Winfield leaves the room
[08:12:29] Jeffrey Yasskin leaves the room
[08:14:11] dkg leaves the room
[08:16:07] sftcd leaves the room
[08:18:19] Jeffrey Yasskin joins the room
[08:22:10] John L leaves the room
[08:24:23] John L joins the room
[08:26:42] dkg joins the room
[08:26:57] dkg joins the room
[08:27:04] John L leaves the room
[08:30:37] Pete Resnick joins the room
[08:31:41] Benno Overeinder leaves the room
[08:38:32] Benno Overeinder joins the room
[08:40:41] dkg leaves the room
[08:40:56] Benno Overeinder leaves the room
[08:45:51] John L joins the room
[08:46:04] John L leaves the room
[08:46:45] mcr leaves the room: Disconnected: closed
[09:06:00] Ben Campbell leaves the room
[09:07:33] John L joins the room
[09:13:31] John L leaves the room
[09:20:53] Pete Resnick leaves the room
[09:40:15] ted.h joins the room
[09:41:34] John L joins the room
[09:41:36] cm-msk@jabber.org joins the room
[09:56:51] ted.h leaves the room
[10:06:05] John L leaves the room
[10:37:12] cm-msk@jabber.org leaves the room
[10:40:50] Jeffrey Yasskin leaves the room
[10:51:42] dkg leaves the room
[11:15:14] dkg joins the room
[11:19:42] dkg leaves the room
[14:34:09] cm-msk@jabber.org joins the room
[14:41:07] Jeffrey Yasskin joins the room
[15:11:14] cm-msk@jabber.org leaves the room
[17:24:28] Jeffrey Yasskin leaves the room
[23:38:34] Jeffrey Yasskin joins the room
[23:57:28] cm-msk@jabber.org joins the room