[05:17:17] --- pete.stpierre@gmail.com has joined [05:34:01] --- pete.stpierre@gmail.com has left [05:47:15] --- pete.stpierre@gmail.com has joined [06:05:44] --- igarashi has joined [06:06:06] standard intro -- yellow page [06:06:50] --- igarashi has left [06:06:52] --- frodek has joined [06:07:03] --- igarashi has joined [06:07:14] agenda bashing - 1 new presentation at the end [06:09:05] what is 6lowpan? Carsten gives overview. [06:09:21] --- ShoichiSakane has joined [06:09:30] bottom line - make 15.4 network look like an IPv6 link [06:10:17] request for agenda additions [06:10:40] Q from floor: is service discovery addressed in this group? [06:11:06] Geoff M: Current charter does not include work in this area. [06:11:31] --- sureshk has joined [06:11:39] (jump to slide 7): chartered items [06:14:03] GM: encourages anyone to write a draft on service disc. and submit. [06:14:21] CB: back to rechartering discussion [06:15:45] GM: mark(AD) can't be here, december charter text has generally been accepted. [06:17:26] CB: reviewing each item on Slide 7 (Charter: Milestones) [06:18:51] first 5 items for 2008. last two items are ongoing efforts w/o delivery dates. [06:19:35] last two items may not become RFCs. [06:20:24] Q from JPV: why did it take so long to recharter [06:21:23] JPV: and (second Q): 4a is tied up w/ 3b. [06:21:58] CB/GM: clarified - 3b is to be used as input to ROLL WG. [06:22:40] CB: ROLL documents may not focus on specific 6lowpan requirements -- if they do, some of this work may be redundant. [06:24:13] CB: some requirements (for ROLL) may be specific to 6lowpan (such as small packet sizes for routing msgs) [06:26:00] GM: we may want to think about other PHY, but that isn't specifically chartered. to be clear: we're focused on 15.4 [06:27:16] CB: back to Q1 - why so long? [06:27:21] (to recharter) [06:27:50] mostly waiting on ROLL chartering to be sure of work division. [06:28:39] AD has told us we are on IESG agenda. We should assume we're rechartered, keep in mind ROLL work and move on. [06:29:11] review of each draft/milestone on Slide 7 [06:29:32] 1a. 6lowpan Bootstrapping and ND Optimization [06:29:56] JH: there needs to be some other mechanism to enable route over. [06:30:04] draft seems to focus on ND for mesh under. [06:31:09] is this a Q for autoconf? their charter doesn't seem to take into account small MTU etc. [06:31:20] SC: what is mesh under in your mind [06:31:45] JH: MeshU is L2 forwarding. Route over is forwarding at the IP layer. [06:31:56] multiple hops in single L2 network. [06:32:43] GM: historical note: when this was written, mesh under architecture was assumed. Route over (L3 route) came later. [06:33:17] GM: agrees w/ JH - need to make sure this draft may accommodate L3 [06:33:30] JH: may require different mechanism for prefix distribution. [06:33:42] JH: may be better to have separate drafts. [06:34:04] CB: has volunteered JH to route-over ND draft. [06:35:46] K.Kim: this is also related to commissioning. that draft recently updated [06:36:19] CB: good to keep separate - commissioning not likely to be done by Dec. [06:37:08] KKim: Commissioning a little wider scoped than bootstrapping. [06:37:51] Item 2a. statefull HC problem statement [06:38:14] CB: a lot of work has been done in the area, (solution space) [06:38:38] but current HC work is a solution, not a prob. statement and isn't "stateful". [06:39:07] Not likely to be done by 4/2004. [06:39:16] 4/2008 (correction) [06:40:14] CB: Current work is useful to see what state of thinking is. What problems are easy/hard. [06:40:32] CB: requirements/solution are being developed together [06:41:21] CB: what other higher level items need to be compressed? (SNMP? ND?, etc.) [06:41:48] GM: need people to work on this. [06:42:14] GM: Kris Pister (not present) was interested last mtg. [06:42:20] Anyone else interested? [06:43:05] Carsten Borman, Kris Pister currently listed on slide. Contact CB or Geoff M. if interested. [06:43:28] Next - 3a.6lowpan arch doc. [06:43:47] input: draft-culler-6lopan-arch-00 [06:44:00] (see slide 12) [06:45:21] KKim: architecture doc should also talk about management, profile, service discovery. [06:46:08] add 'whole picture', profile things in arch doc. [06:46:45] Pieter De Mil: agrees. willing to work w/ KKim [06:46:58] PDM: and other DLLs. [06:47:18] GM: but WE are focues on 15.4 [06:47:40] JPV: if charter says we're doing 15.4, we need to stay in that space. [06:47:58] CB: certainly - we're chartered for 15.4. [06:48:44] GM: but it DOES mean we're NOT doing 802.11 [06:48:59] or powerline control, homeplugCC, etc. [06:49:12] GM: anticipate usage elsewhere, but design for 15.4 [06:50:24] --- igarashi has left: Computer went to sleep [06:51:06] --- igarashi has joined [06:51:32] --- igarashi has left [06:51:35] CB: in favor of accepting this draft as basis for 3a deliverable? [06:51:41] --- igarashi has joined [06:51:47] room generally in favor. [06:51:56] item 3b. routing req. [06:52:10] slide 13 [06:53:21] GM: lets table disc. on this document and take this up a little later. [06:53:27] item 4a. use cases [06:53:48] CB: some work done in this draft (slide 14) [06:54:55] GM/CB: align and cross-ref with ROLL documents [06:55:10] make sure we look at larger issues in use case draft than just routing. [06:56:21] DPark: need to get more input from commercial networks [06:58:30] EKim: agree with DPark, but draft isn't focues on routing, takes into account other characteristics, would welcome Dpark help on expanding. [06:58:56] JPV: more people need to read the draft. [06:59:48] DPark: use cases can be time consuming. how many use cases can we do? [07:00:05] GM: take this up after Use Case preso. [07:01:19] item 6a. (slide 16) [07:02:03] no starting document, looking for someone to work on initial draft for implementors guide. [07:02:49] this doc should help clarify nuances of 4944. [07:03:21] simple fragement recovery work should probably be separate draft/work item. [07:04:20] GM: will try to (outside IETF) try to get an implementers meeting together and feed results back in. [07:04:48] not an offical interim meeting, but focused on implementers and get feedback into the WG. [07:04:55] 7a. interop group. [07:05:05] --- john.zhao has joined [07:05:29] JH: may integrate this work into an implementor's guide. [07:06:03] CB: we're 33min behind schedule [07:06:12] JPV to present status of ROLL [07:06:35] see JPV/ROLL slides [07:07:11] Status: chartered after Vancouver BOF [07:07:45] selecting specific use cases to focus work [07:09:46] (JPV reading/reviewing first slide: Work items section) [07:10:29] all are welcome to attend thurs morn. meeting. [07:10:37] 4 drafts to be discussed (next slide) [07:10:59] next slide: JPV reading/reviewing milestones [07:12:27] please send all comments on ROLL mailing list. [07:12:48] Comments by JPV: work between ROLL/6lowpan welcome/encouraged! [07:13:03] join mailing list -- and please CONTRIBUTE [07:13:29] reminder - old RSN mailing list being shut down. [07:13:30] --- igarashi has left: Computer went to sleep [07:13:48] SC: do other network fall into ROLL (non 15.4) [07:13:53] JPV: absolutely. [07:14:00] --- igarashi has joined [07:14:10] low power Wifi, bluetooth, etc. [07:14:14] ROLL is L2 agnostic [07:14:34] goal to abstract L2 to make L3 more effective [07:15:08] GKara...: service discover question [07:15:16] JPV: roll is just about routing [07:16:01] reminder -- roll is thurs morning [07:16:10] Next preso: [07:16:27] Danial Park: WPAN security (see slides) [07:17:23] please send comments on this draft to the list. [07:17:31] first slide: changes from -01 [07:18:50] slide 2: background [07:19:24] two security concerns: complete end to end solution AND secure from threats at different levels [07:19:34] slide 3: outlook on the draft [07:19:52] can 6lowpan adopt full Ipv6 security model? [07:20:03] how to make a secure 6lowpan [07:23:32] moving forward: feedback appreciated [07:24:15] CB: is this the doc we want to use for item 5a? [07:24:34] how many would like to use this doc -- [07:24:44] room generally accepts this item. [07:24:54] --- john.zhao has left: Computer went to sleep [07:24:55] CB: should we keep this individual, or accept as WG item? [07:26:00] --- john.zhao has joined [07:26:00] --- igarashi has left: Computer went to sleep [07:26:39] --- igarashi has joined [07:28:16] GM/CB: should we accept this as a WG item [07:28:21] --- washad has joined [07:28:50] Do we have any security people that want to take over as editor? [07:29:07] Chairs will move forward on mailing list, to get additional feedback/opinions. [07:29:56] Shoichi: security depends on application. should look at use cases, too. [07:30:28] GM: doc looks at security at the 15.4 layer. we need to understand that part moving forward. [07:30:54] I would be interested in working on the security document [07:30:58] GM: IPsec may be too heavyweight - need to understand lower layers, then maybe look higher at use cases [07:31:36] washad: please contact Daniel Park (draft author) and I'm sure he will welcome your help. Thank you for stepping up! [07:32:11] --- john.zhao has left: Computer went to sleep [07:32:11] --- cabo has joined [07:32:56] --- washad has left [07:33:07] next item: problem statement and requirements for 6lowpan mesh routing (EKim) [07:33:55] EKim: brief update on draft-dokaspar-6lowpan-routereq-04 [07:34:04] slide 1: update in problem statement [07:34:19] --- john.zhao has joined [07:34:20] (slide 2) [07:35:02] 6lowpan may be either stub or transit network: assume stub for now to simplify problem space [07:35:11] slide 3 [07:35:28] communication models [07:35:31] slide 4 [07:35:48] changed format/skeleton of document [07:36:13] slide 5 [07:36:35] role dependent requirements & application dependent requirements [07:37:14] slide 6 [07:37:21] MAC coupled requirements [07:38:14] slide 7: next step? [07:38:56] will this group do routng requirements? is this a good way for us to work with the ROLL group? [07:39:28] JPV: (back to slide 5) [07:39:58] JPV: we have objectives to make ROLL work with this. [07:40:35] a lot of items here are part of ROLL. [07:40:53] what parts are MAC specific. [07:41:11] JPV: this doc should focus on MAC items & feed that back into ROLL [07:41:24] metrics for L2 [07:41:48] DPark: scope of this draft? Is this specific to 15.4? [07:42:32] trying to be generally, but mostly 15.4 when MAC items considered [07:43:58] DPark: if this is in 6lowpan, doesn't need to be generic. Needs to focus on 15.4 [07:44:04] eKim: that is the goal of this draft. [07:44:20] CB: seems this draft should be aligned with ROLL drafts. [07:45:25] next item: Design and Application Spaces for 6lowpan [07:46:23] EKim presenting: Slide 1 [07:46:32] Last meeting summary [07:47:04] Consenus: Need 6lowpan application scenario draft [07:47:13] Comments: more depth needed [07:47:57] Update (-02) slide [07:48:07] Added Industry monitoring & Healthcare [07:48:44] Storage monitoring (next slide) [07:49:44] --- john.zhao has left: Computer went to sleep [07:50:18] next slide: healthcare/tele-assistance [08:05:11] --- john.zhao has joined [08:15:26] --- john.zhao has left: Computer went to sleep [08:16:20] --- john.zhao has joined [08:23:00] --- igarashi has joined [08:23:15] --- igarashi has left [08:24:31] --- igarashi has joined [08:25:08] --- igarashi has left [08:34:12] --- john.zhao has left: Computer went to sleep [08:47:12] --- ShoichiSakane has joined [09:15:23] --- lj324o230ar has joined [09:15:28] --- lj324o230ar has left [09:20:31] --- cabo has joined [09:31:36] --- ShoichiSakane has left [09:56:42] --- frodek has joined [09:56:43] --- cabo has left [10:00:46] --- frodek has left [10:12:25] --- ShoichiSakane has joined [10:13:01] --- ShoichiSakane has left [22:02:33] --- soyoung has joined [22:02:39] --- soyoung has left